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+--- Thread: Debt Fiscal Crisis Brief -7-27-10 (/showthread.php?tid=7593)
RE: Debt Fiscal Crisis Brief -7-27-10 - EightFingers - 07-30-2010
If you want that to work, you will have to deal with two things: 1: Greed and ego. It was greed that got us into the so-called housing crisis - and it's ego that's keeping us there.
2: Bring back personal responsibility/accountability and also get rid of this sense of entitlement that's overtaking our country.
RE: Debt Fiscal Crisis Brief -7-27-10 - Irongstone - 07-30-2010
Whalesong and KathyH have good ideas to help the homeless. It's a county problem that can be solved so maybe we can get support from county council candidates at this forum. Why not use the 2% land fund to buy some decent land with soil for the homeless to homestead and grow their own food? Organic farming is labor intensive and a small plot can yield a lot of food. Consider what conditions you'd prefer if you become homeless and then let's aim for those conditions for the homestead camps.
And CFB483, I agree completely, including no need for state help. We can each help, we can act collectively at the county level to help, and most of all the homesteaders (no longer the homeless) can be given access to producing their food and shelter as we're each entitled to do.
RE: Debt Fiscal Crisis Brief -7-27-10 - Bob Orts - 07-30-2010
quote:How would you deal with defending the use of the Fund under HCC 2-214©(4) (since that's the only possible loophole for what you propose) against some national agricultural interest who would claim protecting agricultural lands does not authorize the assignment of the land to individuals without compensation back to the Fund? They can make a claim that they would be able to use that land with compensation back to the Fund at a rate that could enable the county to open
Originally posted by Irongstone
Why not use the 2% land fund to buy some decent land with soil for the homeless to homestead and grow their own food?
Open that door and you may find Monsanto farming the land with GMO crops and paying the County lease rates above what the homeless could pay. All they would have to do is agree to preferential hiring of homeless.
But you still have the issue that “protection” and “preservation” is not “use of. Will the legal cost to defend this action is court also come out of the Land Fund?
quote:But that's still governement aid. The Land Fund can be used by the County to purchase lands for the preservation of agricultural lands, but the County would own that land. Having homeless farming governmenet lands without competative leasing is a form of
Originally posted by Irongstone
And CFB483, I agree completely, including no need for state help. We can each help, we can act collectively at the county level to help, and most of all the homesteaders (no longer the homeless) can be given access to producing their food and shelter as we're each entitled to do.
RE: Debt Fiscal Crisis Brief -7-27-10 - james weatherford - 07-30-2010
quote:
[i]...use the 2% land fund to buy some decent land with soil for the homeless to homestead and grow their own food?
An idea worth a serious look.
Using the fund to purchase agricultural land is provided for in the the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund Ordinance (County Code 2-14 to 2-18).
The process for the 2% land fund is established for decisions to be made by the community and not council politics. I like that.
For example, the Commission is a group of volunteer citizens. Also, individuals in the community may submit nominations to the Commission for sites to be purchased with the fund.
Note, the County Council does not simply tap into the fund at will. I like that.
My preference is to let the citizen Commission and community members generate the priorities, as provided for in the Ordinance.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
RE: Debt Fiscal Crisis Brief -7-27-10 - Bob Orts - 07-30-2010
James, even stretching the law and allowing the preservation of agricultural lands to mean buying up agricultural lands that otherwise was not destined for some other purpose, and using it for homeless farming, we're now talking moving from the preservation of the lands through county ownership (covered under 2-214) and into the USE of that land, something not covered by the Fund. Use the Fund to buy it, but what are the laws governing what and how the County can use the land once they own it?
RE: Debt Fiscal Crisis Brief -7-27-10 - james weatherford - 07-30-2010
Good question:
" what are the laws governing what and how the County can use the land once they own it?"
Although I find plenty to disagree with in much of what Mr. Enriques (District 6) has to say, I did reckon he raised an important point when he wanted a fixed portion of the fund used for "maintenance."
While "maintenance" wasn't the idea I would have preferred, the issue does arise that land ownership -- by private or public entity -- includes responsibility for stewardship.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
RE: Debt Fiscal Crisis Brief -7-27-10 - Bob Orts - 07-30-2010
Well that's a slight detail that seemed to have been overlooked in creating the Fund. You have funds to buy the property for protection and preservation, but NO money to preserve and protect what is being preserved and protected. [:0]
RE: Debt Fiscal Crisis Brief -7-27-10 - Irongstone - 07-30-2010
Bob, if we have a good idea then we don't need loopholes. We just flesh it out and take it to the people, and to the council which can change the law if necessary. The county could buy the land and zone it for an eco-villages. It doesn't have to be prime "agricultural land". Organic farmers in Puna are on lava with as much organic material as they can add to it. I only mentioned good soil to make it easier and better for the homesteaders. Who is so exempt from rising property tax that they would never become one of the homesteaders?
RE: Debt Fiscal Crisis Brief -7-27-10 - james weatherford - 07-30-2010
Irongstone,
Well done.
If you believe in your idea, grow it.
Make it happen.
I look forward to learning more as you make progress.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
RE: Debt Fiscal Crisis Brief -7-27-10 - Bob Orts - 07-30-2010
quote:Lets say that the land can be acquired through the Land Fund.
Originally posted by Irongstone
Bob, if we have a good idea then we don't need loopholes. We just flesh it out and take it to the people, and to the council which can change the law if necessary. The county could buy the land and zone it for an eco-villages. It doesn't have to be prime "agricultural land". Organic farmers in Puna are on lava with as much organic material as they can add to it. I only mentioned good soil to make it easier and better for the homesteaders. Who is so exempt from rising property tax that they would never become one of the homesteaders?
First you have to buy the land willingly from the owner. If the owner is unwilling to sell, the option is condemnation. But if condemnation is used, the land must be for public benefit. That means the County can't give the land or use of the land to a private person without compensation. So, since this is for homeless people, the lease rate is $10 a year. But if Monsanto offers $50 a year, the County has to offer it to them so long as they use it for agriculture.
If the owner sells to the County, the County can't just assign the land to a private person. They would need a formal program that meets County and State requirements for private use of public property. In that process, all sorts of challenges could be raised from other private citizens. You may be in court for a decade and still end up with nothing.
Once the land is in public hands, every taxpayer now has a vested interest in maximizing benefit from that land. What if a bunch of residents nearby want it for a community garden? Or a non-profit wants the land for a educational organic farm for children? Or a big national agricultural conglomerate wants to plant GMO sugar beats and pay huge lease rates back to the County? All these are valid uses.