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+--- Thread: HPP road maintainence (/showthread.php?tid=17721)
RE: HPP road maintainence - Johnd - 12-30-2016
quote:
Originally posted by Chunkster
I've stayed away from the endless churning on this thread for a while, but I have to ask Mermaid: What makes you think revising the bylaws is going to change anything when every election produces new board members whose first order of business is to ignore the bylaws?
As for the Attorney General's office, they don't answer email or snail mail pertaining to this mess. I've sent both to them with no response. I guess they were too busy unsuccessfully prosecuting Kenoi.
At this point the best solution would be to abolish the hui, let the bondholders put liens on all the lots, and have each little section of owners hire someone competent to maintain the roads. I would gladly pay off my portion of the debt to lift the lien and be free of this eternal bickering money pit.
Bondholders can put a lien on the lots? Says who? Me thinks not and if the local AG does not answer then the Honolulu office will.
I rather stop paying the fees and let the HOA try to put a lien on my lots that can hardly be found under the overgrowth at this point, after I religiously pay them fees to maintain our roads!
I am in total agreement that this story with the GM, the lawsuits, Ms Maynard,the board, weeds breaking new laid chip seal, the bylaws, all the while fees are up and we have to hack our way out of our lots is WAY AND BEYOND PATHETIC. Let me tell you, bylaws will never ensure that we will have rational management of the park with a board of volunteers, it has not worked and it will not work, ever.
Frankly I don't think that at this time we need another group of volunteers messing with our bylaws. Right now this association has defaulted on the only reason for their existence:building and maintaining our roads. I could not give a rat's behind about all the mumbo jumbo bylaw bs,pompous twit meetings, and stupid GM, we want our roads maintained with the money we give them each year and if they don't fulfill this, there is no more need to waste time in bs committees and bylaw rewrites.
If they don't deliver on the promise of paved and maintained roads, and they keep taking our money, then it is a swindle...plain and simple. Could not care less about "the monies are depleted" sing along,if the Board cannot pave all roads and maintain them, they cannot continue to extract our money for something they will not do.
The management of a large subdivision like ours with millions of dollars in revenue should be in the hands of professional third party, who would have to account for everything they do to a Board whose exclusive task would be to follow the bylaws and nothing else. This association cannot be self managed by a group of ever changing volunteers! This mess has been going on since time inmemoriam and to put it mildly the time to change all this bizarre state of affairs was yesterday. The meaning of insanity is expecting different results while perpetuating the same old tired routine.
J do
RE: HPP road maintainence - kalakoa - 12-30-2016
If they don't deliver on the promise of paved and maintained roads, and they keep taking our money, then it is a swindle...
Created by County, decades ago, as part of a giant "tax mining" operation.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Kenney - 12-30-2016
Aloha Johnd. Sadly, I agree with much of your last post. Your statement that " (bs) committees and bylaw rewrites" are useless til such time as we have honest and intelligent leadership, be it the BOD, Court, whoever is right on. Historically, the BOD has nixed any recommendations of Committees , however relevant they might be. (As in the Road Traffic Safety Committee, who recommended striping the main drags, installing reflectors, keeping reasonable line of sight on corners etc,.) Rather than consider these safety issues, the BOD disbanded the committee. They really don't want anyone knowing what's going on or making recommendations. They don't like sharing information or power. Anyone looking over their shoulder is a risk to them and their stranglehold over HPP residents.
The Finance Committee, also is unable to do an informed job of keeping their eye on our $ because they are not provided with current, accurate financial information, which we all are entitled to on request, committee member or not. They are not even consulted before making $100,000+ purchases. No bids, no discussion.
I'm sorry to say that so far the AG in Honolulu has not acted in our behalf even though they have been kept apprised of our situation for at Least 2 years, as recently as today. Lots of people have contacted them. I keep hoping that if enough of us raise concerns, they will act. As my Grannie said, "if at first you don't succeed, try try again". I haven't given up and hope other Owners will speak up. Please!
This problem ( us being legally and financially responsible for the BOD's illegal and immoral actions ) isn't going away if we just keep meekly paying for a service we're not getting.
I hope we, as a Community, can find the answers to this mutual threat to our security and our homes.
Til then, we wish HPP and PW Ohana a happy, healthy 2017!
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 12-30-2016
[quote]Originally posted by Chunkster
I've stayed away from the endless churning on this thread for a while, but I have to ask Mermaid: What makes you think revising the bylaws is going to change anything when every election produces new board members whose first order of business is to ignore the bylaws?
One has to start somewhere. A good place is to update the bylaws. Identify the areas that need tightening up, close loopholes, clarify all the gray areas etc. The BLC has done quite a bit of clarifying and tightening up already which is freaking out the majority board. It wouldn't be freaking them out if they didn't have power issues. I predict the membership will be happy with the proposed amendments thus far.
One has to be hopeful that there will be change...and it starts w/US, or nothing will change.
Take chip seal out of the equation if you want them to get back to road and easement maint basics and stop wasting OUR $$$$$$ and road crew labor on a substandard product. Support the recall petition process for Dist 5 if you live in that district. These are all steps in the right direction for positive change.
As for the Attorney General's office, they don't answer email or snail mail pertaining to this mess. I've sent both to them with no response. I guess they were too busy unsuccessfully prosecuting Kenoi.
So now would be a good time to try again since Kenoi's case is pau.
At this point the best solution would be to abolish the hui, let the bondholders put liens on all the lots, and have each little section of owners hire someone competent to maintain the roads. I would gladly pay off my portion of the debt to lift the lien and be free of this eternal bickering money pit.
How does one abolish the hui Chunkster? How much $$$ would be involved in paying off your/our portion of the debt?
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 12-30-2016
The management of a large subdivision like ours with millions of dollars in revenue should be in the hands of professional third party, who would have to account for everything they do to a Board whose exclusive task would be to follow the bylaws and nothing else. This association cannot be self managed by a group of ever changing volunteers! This mess has been going on since time inmemoriam and to put it mildly the time to change all this bizarre state of affairs was yesterday. The meaning of insanity is expecting different results while perpetuating the same old tired routine.
J do
Johnd, it looks like someone has to start researching 3rd party mgmt options and present it to the membership at the Feb membership mtg and take a vote. How much will it cost us vs what we're doing now? We'll still need a board bc of the bond requirement. How much power they'll have w/a mgmt company in place is another question. The bond requirements will have to be researched.
Some members have spoken of going into receivership, but I heard the last time we were in receivership, we didn't have a bond. If we went into receivership, the chip seal project would come to a screeching halt.
Someone presented the 3rd party mgmt option at the last membership mtg. Unfortunately she didn't have all her facts gathered when she made her motion to form a committee to research this option, and her motion failed.
I am in total agreement w/you, Kenny and Chunkster. Us doling $$$$ out every year and getting nothing in return is unacceptable.
Special membership mtg? How else can the membership unite to challenge the board? 100 signatures would be easy to gather to request a membership mtg.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Johnd - 12-31-2016
quote:I have not contacted the AG and I would not do it without having a counsel drawing the complaint.
Originally posted by Kenney
Aloha Johnd. Sadly, I agree with much of your last post. Your statement that " (bs) committees and bylaw rewrites" are useless til such time as we have honest and intelligent leadership, be it the BOD, Court, whoever is right on. Historically, the BOD has nixed any recommendations of Committees , however relevant they might be. (As in the Road Traffic Safety Committee, who recommended striping the main drags, installing reflectors, keeping reasonable line of sight on corners etc,.) Rather than consider these safety issues, the BOD disbanded the committee. They really don't want anyone knowing what's going on or making recommendations. They don't like sharing information or power. Anyone looking over their shoulder is a risk to them and their stranglehold over HPP residents.
The Finance Committee, also is unable to do an informed job of keeping their eye on our $ because they are not provided with current, accurate financial information, which we all are entitled to on request, committee member or not. They are not even consulted before making $100,000+ purchases. No bids, no discussion.
I'm sorry to say that so far the AG in Honolulu has not acted in our behalf even though they have been kept apprised of our situation for at Least 2 years, as recently as today. Lots of people have contacted them. I keep hoping that if enough of us raise concerns, they will act. As my Grannie said, "if at first you don't succeed, try try again". I haven't given up and hope other Owners will speak up. Please!
This problem ( us being legally and financially responsible for the BOD's illegal and immoral actions ) isn't going away if we just keep meekly paying for a service we're not getting.
I hope we, as a Community, can find the answers to this mutual threat to our security and our homes.
Til then, we wish HPP and PW Ohana a happy, healthy 2017!
Lets face it, unless a lot of us put money on the table to do this right, nothing will ever change. I have said enough in this thread and I will not talk "strategy" here anymore, but I will say this...this community was founded with the wrong foot and under false presence. Each board member past and present are making themselves financially liable.
jdo
RE: HPP road maintainence - Johnd - 12-31-2016
quote:
Originally posted by mermaid53
The management of a large subdivision like ours with millions of dollars in revenue should be in the hands of professional third party, who would have to account for everything they do to a Board whose exclusive task would be to follow the bylaws and no thing else. This association cannot be self managed by a group of ever changing volunteers! This mess has been going on since time inmemoriam and to put it mildly the time to change all this bizarre state of affairs was yesterday. The meaning of insanity is expecting different results while perpetuating the same old tired routine.
J do
Johnd, it looks like someone has to start researching 3rd party mgmt options and present it to the membership at the Feb membership mtg and take a vote. How much will it cost us vs what we're doing now? We'll still need a board bc of the bond requirement. How much power they'll have w/a mgmt company in place is another question. The bond requirements will have to be researched.
Some members have spoken of going into receivership, but I heard the last time we were in receivership, we didn't have a bond. If we went into receivership, the chip seal project would come to a screeching halt.
Someone presented the 3rd party mgmt option at the last membership mtg. Unfortunately she didn't have all her facts gathered when she made her motion to form a committee to research this option, and her motion failed.
I am in total agreement w/you, Kenny and Chunkster. Us doling $$$$ out every year and getting nothing in return is unacceptable.
Special membership mtg? How else can the membership unite to challenge the board? 100 signatures would be easy to gather to request a membership mtg.
You probably will get way more than a hundred signatures. But, if the Board is so self protecting, spending our money for lawyers to just mediate.. And now proposing to what basically will be an amendment to the bylaws.. It does not look pretty.
Mermaid, I think receivership is probably the best think that can happen. There is no talking to this board or the others. That is clear from just the standpoint that our fees are no longer serving the purpose and actually never did.
I stand by calling their bluff in mass and for owners to stop paying the fees and send all this convoluted mess where it belongs.. To hell. This board and others have failed... Miserably.... but they will not go away just because you and I say so. So we need collective action, they board carved its own grave this time.
You keep talking about bylaws, when did the bylaws have actually helped? We are mired in a bureaucratic hell hole of sorts with no end in sight. We cannot even begin to present a third party management option study with the Board we have...
I think we need a clean slate, either we have management company which most probably will end up being court appointed, or we just have a cooperative of neighbors pulling sweat equity to maintain out roads, which by the way will not take that much to do if we compare what we have right now.
I have heard folks say that our main roads will deteriorate if we do not support the bylaws, really? Because they are not deteriorating now? Our main roads are a liabilility right now. I had asked the previous manager to keep main side roads areas mowed and trees trimmed to have good driving visibility in some areas. Then, he was receptive... What happened to him and what do we have now? To make a long story short, those folks arguments about the main roads do not hold water anymore, it is evident that we cannot count in the wisdom of a Board.
I hear loud and clear that Lower Puna wants the County to open Railroad as a secondary road, my view? Great, let's propose that, in exchange for the County taking over the maintenance of the main roads. Everyone uses our privately paid roads already and they only contribute wear and tear!
I personally would be happier if we had control over the maintenance of our particular roads, I think that we can do a better job to keep them viable, and some of us are already doing that. No more fees, the bondholders either take a cut or they can take the roads back..
jdo
RE: HPP road maintainence - kalakoa - 12-31-2016
unless a lot of us put money on the table to do this right, nothing will ever change
Lots of you are already putting money on the table every year. Shouldn't you get what you want for that money?
You keep talking about bylaws, when did the bylaws have actually helped?
TMT followed the laws, look where that project ended up.
You probably will get way more than a hundred signatures.
Here's a real suggestion: instead of wasting time/money/effort on a petition, how about getting all those people to challenge their property valuation with County RPT? Road access is one of the factors in assessed value; if the roads aren't viable, then the property is probably worth less than whatever County says.
If several hundred people clog up the County RPT offices with valuation challenges ... someone might take notice: remember, property tax is a major source of revenue!
RE: HPP road maintainence - punaticbychoice - 12-31-2016
kalakoa:
Probably the best approach.
Can those who do it withstand the BS from the County?
The BOD and the County are functionally in bed together.
They both want the revenue.
Take it from there.
RE: HPP road maintainence - kalakoa - 12-31-2016
The BOD and the County are functionally in bed together.
Right. I forgot the First Rule Of Hawaii: "You signed up for this when you chose to live here."