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+--- Thread: HPP road maintainence (/showthread.php?tid=17721)
RE: HPP road maintainence - Slow Walker - 12-31-2016
Here's a real suggestion: instead of wasting time/money/effort on a petition, how about getting all those people to challenge their property valuation with County RPT? Road access is one of the factors in assessed value; if the roads aren't viable, then the property is probably worth less than whatever County says.
I agree with you Kalakoa but getting people to devalue their property would be about as successful as having Donnie Trump give green cards to all non lawful immigrants.
RE: HPP road maintainence - punaticbychoice - 12-31-2016
Slow Walker:
Any devaluation of Paradise Park properties is the responsibility of the BOD
And their actions. Or non-actions.
The County? Well- they and the BOD are in bed together.
Now look at DHHL and OHA.
This BS affects all of us.
RE: HPP road maintainence - kalakoa - 12-31-2016
So ... if nobody is willing to step up and solve the problem, maybe stop complaining about it? Because all I see here are excuses.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Chunkster - 12-31-2016
@Mermaid: You and a lot of well-meaning people have made some valuable contributions to HPP in the past, but a bylaws revision is like putting a bandaid on a serious gunshot wound. I guess trying to work a broken system is all you know how to do, but it's time to get radical and force the whole mess into receivership. The board used our money to inject lawyers into the arbitration process and thwart it. Some of those well-meaning and honorable people spent a lot of money on that arbitration. (I know because I donated some money to them to help out.) I told some of them at the outset that their money would be better spent on a lawsuit to force receivership, but that's not where it went.
I was being sarcastic when I said the AG was too busy prosecuting Kenoi. They and the politicians either don't care or are mortified at the prospective of opening the can of worms they know the whole Puna subdivision situation to be.
I'm no lawyer, but I think it would take receivership as a first step to abolish the hui. If enough people made the case in front of a judge that it is a failed enterprise by presenting the history of poor stewardship going all the way back to (and beyond) the 1990's receivership, a drastic reconfiguration or abolition could happen. They do it all the time with corporations, profit and nonprofit.
As for the bond, I was told by several former board members who pushed for the bond that the bondholders could "seek recovery" of their money in the event of default by whatever means they saw fit. It is unclear if receivership would in and of itself constitute default on the bond as long as the payments were being made. I got mixed answers when I asked these folks that last question. In any case, I realistically think we are on the hook for the money on both a collective and individual basis. I believe the original amount of the loan per lot was about $1800, but that would be somewhat less today due to it having been paid down. I would gladly pay the full amount to be rid of this mess and reset it to zero.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Obie - 12-31-2016
Perfect solution.Everyone in HPP needs to come uo with $1800.00 to pay off the bond.
Next everyone needs to be assessed somewhere between $4000.00 and $8000.00 for each and every lot they own to finish paving the roads.This a conservative cost estimate.
Next raise the annual fee to $1200.00. This is about the amount needed to maintain the roads and rightaways like everyone here thinks they should be maintained.
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with your bylaws.The biggest problem seems to be the people posting here that don't understand them.
Mermaid posted a bunch of bylaws a few pages back and then posted this statement "
Laying chip seal is not road maintenance. The already laid chip seal roads will now come under road maintenance. "
Sorry but you are wrong.You need to read the bylaws from the beginning.Way up at the top you will find this :
ARTICLE V – BYLAWS DEFINITIONS
Section 1. Road Maintenance Activity. An activity engaged in for the purpose of managing, maintaining, improving,
preserving or protecting any road or road easement in Hawaiian Paradise Park, including collecting, accounting for,
administering, and protecting road maintenance funds, and managing, operating, maintaining, and protecting road maintenance
property.
Chip seal is an improvement over dust and dirt .
RE: HPP road maintainence - Chunkster - 12-31-2016
Obie, I'm fully aware that a large proportion of HPP lot owners either wouldn't or couldn't pay their portion of the bond debt at one swoop. I sometimes use hyperbolae to indicate the need for drastic action, but I do remain willing myself.
As for chip seal being better than dust and dirt, well, it might be if it were done properly by experienced, licensed contractors. It won't be, however, if it deteriorates so quickly that it becomes a maintenance liability rather than an asset. Orchidland has had mixed results, and a lot of folks up there don't like it.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Tink - 12-31-2016
Chip seal is only as good as the base it is applied to. On asphalt it is great if you first "caulk" the cracks with a hot tar to make it impervious to water. If applied over dirt or cinder, the dirt or cinder must be stabilized by hydrated lime for dirt, heavy oil tar for cinder/ gravel to make it more like asphalt. Failure to do the prep dooms the chip seal to rapid failure.
This is what a reputable, professional road construction company will do if they want to guarantee their work past the "tail light" warranty (only good until you can't see their tail light as they leave, for those unfamiliar with the term).
Community begins with Aloha
RE: HPP road maintainence - Obie - 12-31-2016
Chunkster,The bottom line is that your Board of Directors is doing the best they can with the limited funds they have to deal with.
I have a neighbor who pays $100.00 per month for lawncare on a very small lot. $1200.00 per year.How can anyone expect to have paved roads,easement maint and bond payments all covered by about $300.00 per year ?
It's unfortunate that the money was borrowed and then the price of oil skyrocketed.In a nutshell that is what happened !
Hiring professional management will just leave you with less money for road maint.
Foreclosure will trigger clauses in the bond that will deplete the entire bank account.
Chip and seal is a viable alternative because it is cheaper to repair potholes than it is to dump tons of gravel and roll the road every few years.
Kapoho Kai Dr in Vacationland is chip and sealed and has as much traffic as any of HPP's side roads.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Slow Walker - 12-31-2016
Dust,dirt,mud,sharp rocks and humongous holes is what the roads were like when I bought my property. Then more pilgrims moved in and wanted it the way it was from whence they came. Get used to it.
Sorry but Santa Claus dont work in this neighborhood.
RE: HPP road maintainence - shockwave rider - 12-31-2016
quote:
Originally posted by Slow Walker
Dust,dirt,mud,sharp rocks and humongous holes is what the roads were like when I bought my property. Then more pilgrims moved in and wanted it the way it was from whence they came. Get used to it.
Sorry but Santa Claus dont work in this neighborhood.
When my partner bought what is now our rental property in HPP the roads were OK, not great but OK, this was a long time ago when very few people lived here, there were 4 houses on our dead end road. By the time I came on the scene the roads were really good: lines of sight were safe on all the intersections, the grader came through twice a year and new material was brought in and rolled at least once a year, and the sides of our dead end road were mowed on a regular basis.
That continued for several years for basically the same road fees and bond payments we have now, until the mid day massacre where a brand new board fired the GM, the road crew manager, and soon after pretty much everyone else. Since then the road has been graded exactly once, the intersections have no lines of sight to see speeding cars coming on the paved main roads, and any mowing is done by the people living on the road.
I don't give a rats rear end about Santa Claus, but like most property owners in HPP I want a return to the level of service we got for years, before the board fired everyone who knew how to maintain our roads within the budget provided by our road fees.