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+--- Thread: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles (/showthread.php?tid=20200)
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 11-29-2018
then where is the treaty of cession or annexation? There is none.
I believe we've been through this before. Examples have been offered showing a treaty is not required, but the example is then dismissed because of a minute detail which supposedly renders it not comparable or applicable.
There's always a loophole, so what's the point of providing real world cases?
The point is reality. Hawaii is a state.
"I want great climate, we’re going to have that.” President Donald J. Trump, while viewing the massive wildfire devastation 11/17/18. (The J stands for Jenius)
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - leilanidude - 11-29-2018
If "We are a nation of laws", then where is the treaty of cession or annexation? There is none.
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Doesn't need to be one. The queen gave it up.
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - kalakoa - 11-29-2018
The queen gave it up.
Fine. Produce a living witness to this transaction.
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - leilanidude - 11-29-2018
She signed the documents...
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 11-29-2018
show me the treaty
riversnout -
I have a question for you. When you look at the current leaders in the Hawaiian Sovereignty movement, from the Kingdom of Hawaii to the Hawaiian Kingdom, to "The Protectors", the Trask sisters, people who offered testimony at the TMT hearings, DHHL, OHA trustees - - who among them, or which group among them would you like to see as the legitimate monarch or political leaders for a New Hawaii? What are their abilities, their top accomplishments, that provides you with confidence that they could lead an independent nation in the 21st century?
"I want great climate, we’re going to have that.” President Donald J. Trump, while viewing the massive wildfire devastation 11/17/18. (The J stands for Jenius)
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - MarkP - 11-29-2018
quote:
Originally posted by randomq
Riversnout, did Kamehameha have the proper treaties when he slaughtered and murdered to take control of the islands? The (now nonexistent) kingdom might never have been legitimate to begin with! Someone should inform Ruggles and Sai that they are perpetuating war crimes.
When you look at it that way (and I do, as should any reasonable person) how could the Monarchy possibly be any more legitimate than statehood? Because Hawaiians murdering Hawaiians makes it all right?
If I understand correctly, Native Hawaiians reject nation within a nation status like Native American tribes have because they insist on the right to conduct diplomacy directly with other nations. That's never gonna happen. By what mechanism is the big bad USA that has supposedly had their foot on the throat of the Native Hawaiians all this time suddenly going to be compelled to put the entire union at risk now? We fought a civil war to preserve the union, remember? BTW ask Hong Kong, Tibet, Taiwan how they like being under China's wing. The current crop of sovereignty activists trying to run things on their own would be like seeing a toddler riding a tricycle on a highway.
ETA: SOME Native Hawaiians reject nation within a nation status.
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - kalakoa - 11-29-2018
Native Hawaiians reject nation within a nation status
Does anyone else remember County's "grave concern" that Hawaiians might use their sovereignty to circumvent the building codes?
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - leilanidude - 11-29-2018
Does anyone else remember County's "grave concern" that Hawaiians might use their sovereignty to circumvent the building codes?
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Maybe the "Hawaiian Kingdom" should start selling building permits.
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - randomq - 11-30-2018
Uh oh, busted...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/29/hawaii-politician-jennifer-ruggles-sovereign-country
quote:
A spokesman said De Zayas’s memo did not represent the opinion of the Office of the Commissioner for Human Rights. He said: “They are his own views and as such they should not have been sent out using our letterhead.”
quote:
Hawaii is “formally part of the US”, according to De Zayas.
RE: Monday Town Hall with Ruggles - riversnout - 11-30-2018
quote:
Originally posted by leilanidude
She signed the documents...
Under Hawaiian Kingdom law as a constitutional monarchy, the queen cannot "give up" the land. Procedures were not followed.
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
show me the treaty
riversnout -
I have a question for you. When you look at the current leaders in the Hawaiian Sovereignty movement, from the Kingdom of Hawaii to the Hawaiian Kingdom, to "The Protectors", the Trask sisters, people who offered testimony at the TMT hearings, DHHL, OHA trustees - - who among them, or which group among them would you like to see as the legitimate monarch or political leaders for a New Hawaii? What are their abilities, their top accomplishments, that provides you with confidence that they could lead an independent nation in the 21st century?
Excellent question, I don't have an answer for you. But first things first. 1 - Is the US illegally occupying the islands? Yes. 2 - How is this situation going to be remedied and what is the final outcome? I have no idea.
quote:
Originally posted by randomq
Riversnout, did Kamehameha have the proper treaties when he slaughtered and murdered to take control of the islands? The (now nonexistent) kingdom might never have been legitimate to begin with!
Get rid of all nation states since the dawn of the agricultural revolution? Fine by me.