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+--- Thread: TMT groundbreaking - live (/showthread.php?tid=14781)
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - ironyak - 04-07-2015
Originally posted by rainyjim
What I've taken from this thread:
- 'You' should / shouldn't do what 'I' say because of my religion/skin color/place of birth.
- 'I' get to have an opinion about 'XYZ' because of 'XYZ' issues but you don't get one.
Oh and if 'You' disagree with me you obviously don't know what Aloha means, dumb haole - LOL go back to the mainland!!
Anything I missed here?
I've been reading a lot of the discussion about Mauna Kea & TMT and much of it has a similar tone to it. I've come to see it as an exercise in group definition, a drawing of boundaries between an us and a them. For some, this is racial (and often racist), for some it's nationalistic and includes decedents of previous citizens of the Hawaiian Kingdom. In either case, the emphasis is on creating and reinforcing group cohesion, not on finding common ground or a solution based on compromise.
Most interestingly there is a strong emphasis placed on who is saying something, over what is being said. Therefore, statements have more weight or validity simply because of who says them irrespective of the content. This helps explain the invalidation of opinions or the double-standard to tolerate objectionable language, based simply on the source, of which we've seen plenty here.
The use of Mauna Kea for basalt mining, or even astronomy, may be seen very differently based on who is making those decisions and whether they are inside or outside of your group. This is especially true when you don't recognize the validity of any laws from the outside occupying force.
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2015/04/06/mauna-kea-and-the-occupied-hawaiian-kingdom/
IMHO, the Mauna Kea protection efforts are a win-win situation for the Hawaiian Kingdom movement regardless of the outcome. Any delay (such as the week long stoppage the developers just agreed to) demonstrate some power to influence the process, and any coverage draws attention and often support for the wider issues.
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - Guest - 04-07-2015
A few worries and questions here. Sure hope dozers and earth movers don't turn Ali'i trails into new roads or crumble stones that have had purpose and or meaning for thousands of years. Telescopes that are this large must be kept fairly clean, what chemicals if any would be used to clean them? Do these cleaning agents mix with snow and then runoff with the melted ice water? How can a thirty meter(90 feet) tall telescope be good or help protect maunakea's natural ecosystem? Also get some real attitude at that altitude from some Keck folks, why? Amazing how many adventure tour vans and visitors are cruising to the summit daily now days, for what, and for how much? Sad to see maunakea being used like this, put this beast scope in space with a few scientists to help maintain it.
SAVE Maunakea, demand the illegal ripping of her aina to stop. The heavy machine equipment needs to come back off that mountain with more grace than they went up with, jmo.
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - ericlp - 04-07-2015
Hmm, don't stereo type hawaiians race and religion from the TMT bashing fools. Most Hawaiians I know don't care about the TMT project either way. Sure it might be sacred to them. It's sacred to me too.. In other words, this isn't a race thing. It's a mentality thing. Even tho, a place might be sacred to some, does not mean, you can't build a beautiful telescope to expand science does it?
Doesn't mean that people can't get some good jobs and money that will come out of the deal. Tho, I'm more for the advancement in science.
I see they have taken their rant to the airport to great people from the marry monarch festival that are arriving... Ah well... Maybe a week off will do them good?
I wonder if the TMT has to pull out due to the small % that seems to want to step on others views and are selfish and only care about themselves.... Will, the state have to cough up the millions it got and return back the money to the investors?
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RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - Guest - 04-07-2015
Maybe our mayor can talk reason with both parties in hopes to defuse the escalating situation on maunakea? Then again his words may not be trusted as much if he does not stand behind them? Must be very hard for many? some just trying to do their jobs, while others are protecting this sacred mountain. Could this telescope look good on the summit of Mt Fuji, and WHY not? Why should maunakea continue to be decimated or altered and reshaped for the worlds outsiders? Why spend billions(1.4bill) to search for aliens or other planets when we have millions starving or homeless on this planet?
P.S. Maunakea has been a protector for many for thousands of years from many things like large hurricanes. Any changes to this amazing and humble mountain could be desasterous in the coming decades of increased storms we are sure to get.
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - Southernmost - 04-08-2015
Ericlp, from what I constantly see from your posts on here I really doubt you have any Hawaiian friends. All waha to try and prove your point. Should I post the THOUSANDS of comments I've seen online from Hawaiians, locals and haoles on how they are AGAINST TMT? If you aren't Hawaiian, don't speak for Hawaiians you just look ridiculous.
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - Southernmost - 04-08-2015
Small %???!! Eric Lp, how many Kanaka Maoli do you think exist? ITS A SMALL %!
SMDH!
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - Southernmost - 04-08-2015
Here's a song by Ryan Hiroka, a fellow parent at our keikis school and Keala Kawaauhau my sons basketball coach at Kamehameha School.
Dedicated to Eric Lp, punatick007, punamauka2, lavalava, chunkyster, Lee M S, HOTPE, rainyjim, Rob L, PaulW,
Leilanidude, MarkP, Obie.
http://youtu.be/S4qQ0uhQbSg
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island
ET: to be more "tact"
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - ironyak - 04-08-2015
Originally posted by Southernmost
http://youtu.be/S4qQ0uhQbSg
Rise Up by Ryan Hiraoka
"
Make no mistake, this is war and the line has already been drawn. But the only question is what side of the line you stand on. Rise up, rise up, Hawaiian people. We must unite and fight against evil.
"
As I said, us versus them, good versus evil, lines drawn, no middle ground. Does have catchy hook though.
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - snorkle - 04-08-2015
Thanks SM,
The Hawaiian Renaissance continues. It has been a reaction to the marginalization of the Hawaiian Culture. It takes all races to perpetuate this movement, and the Missionary attitudes displayed by some will be themselves marginalized in the future.
[8D]
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - Southernmost - 04-08-2015
Ironyak, it is a question, not a statement. Won't you please join us?
Welcome snorkel, I couldn't have said it better! Aloha Kakou!!
Born&Raised Hawai'i Island