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+--- Thread: HPP road maintainence (/showthread.php?tid=17721)
RE: HPP road maintainence - Johnd - 12-31-2016
We expect that the roads will be maintained and built according to a fee scheduled that was calculated using the sheer size of one of the largest subdivisions in the country containing over 8000 lots and bringing a revenue of almost 2.5 million per year. BTW, a subdivision with 0 infrastructure. If there is no money to cover the obligations this association HAS towards its members it is because:
Serious mismanagement
Lack of business accumen
I would be very cautious to take seriously any fantastic projections of what it would cost us to get rid of this highly ineffective and thoroughly devious association. Nothing beats the scare mongers that pull exorbitant figures out of thin air to paralyze the bejeesus out of those sitting on the fence. To suggest that we ought to pay 4 times what we are paying now in fees and to have a special assessment of thousands of dollars is a good argument to show that the association was a flunk to start with. The truth is that no one here knows what even the bond contract reads, coconut wireless info does not qualify as fact. For crying out loud the Finance committee is a joke and the Board approves large purchases because the GM has a tantrum? Are they doing the best they can with the "little money" they have to work with? No they are not. Read the bylaws for God's sakes, 80% of all that verbosity is dedicated to list mounds of bureaucratic bs. Only article IV describes the duties the association has,just a few lines in a sea of exquisite bull manure. How many out of those eight sublime points has the Board delivered in the last few years??
The more I hear off the chart arguments that we have to come up with yet more money or the end if the world is near if we actually act on this disgraceful state of affairs, the more inclined I am to support bankruptcy. It will force an audit, full financial disclosure,put the Board where they belong, a court appointed administrator and the bondholders will get the money held in association bank account to liquidate the debt. We will get a clean slate, no more politics being played with our money and a chance to reorganize to finally build and maintain our roads...just like that wonderful master plan describes.
jdo
RE: HPP road maintainence - My 2 cents - 01-01-2017
I'm confused. People are asking for receivership and bylaws revisions in the same breath. The bylaws were revised during the last receivership. Can someone explain how going through this process again will help anything?
RE: HPP road maintainence - Slow Walker - 01-01-2017
Sorry, My crystal ball doesnt work when it comes to predicting insanity.
RE: HPP road maintainence - kalakoa - 01-01-2017
mortified at the prospective of opening the can of worms they know the whole Puna subdivision situation to be
This is probably exactly right: the whole mess goes back to County not bothering to enforce the law which required infrastructure before final subdivision plat approval.
raise the annual fee to $1200.00. This is about the amount needed to maintain the roads
Where does this number come from?
Are they doing the best they can with the "little money" they have to work with?
How about comparing their price/performance against other subdivisions?
How much fuel tax revenue does County collect?
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 01-02-2017
Obe wrote:
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with your bylaws.The biggest problem seems to be the people posting here that don't understand them.
Most of us already identified that the "biggest problem" is having a majority board who still don't know our bylaws and makes conscious decisions to not follow them. If they did, most of what we're experiencing wouldn't have happened and still be going on. Since Jul 2014 they've taken HPP to an unprecedented level of dysfunction than we've ever seen before. The proof is in the condition of our roads and easements today...worse than most of us have ever seen since we've lived here. One rep who resigned after constant bullying described it as a cancer on the board.
Obe wrote: Sorry but you are wrong. You need to read the bylaws from the beginning. Way up at the top you will find this:
ARTICLE V – BYLAWS DEFINITIONS
Section 1. Road Maintenance Activity. An activity engaged in for the purpose of managing, maintaining, improving, preserving or protecting any road or road easement in Hawaiian Paradise Park, including collecting, accounting for, administering, and protecting road maintenance funds, and managing, operating, maintaining, and protecting road maintenance
property.
Chip seal is an improvement over dust and dirt.
Chip and seal is a viable alternative because it is cheaper to repair potholes than it is to dump tons of gravel and roll the road every few years.
Filling potholes is a band aid fix. They need to lay road material on the entire road around HPP on a grand scale. Laying road material down at this point in time IS "an improvement" bc most of us have NO ROAD MATERIAL left on our roads, just powder. Wait til we get a drought. That's why our "powder" roads are dusty during droughts, that's why people will complain> NO ROAD MATERIAL on our roads. Improvement as well as road maintenance, needs to be defined in our bylaws and the Bylaw Committee has a proposed amendment to Sec 1 in definitions. It's black and white. Bc it isn't now, these reps construed chip seal as road "maintenance" instead of a capital improvement project. Their lack of mgmt skills is showing. In an ethical world, the board would have to maintain our roads as is mandated in our bylaws and Articles of Incorp and do chip seal as a capital improvement project over a span of many years, after a yay membership vote. These majority reps are monopolizing our $ to get chip seal done in a rush. Why?
Obe also wrote: The bottom line is that your Board of Directors is doing the best they can with the limited funds they have to deal with.
shockwaverider wrote: By the time I came on the scene the roads were really good: lines of sight were safe on all the intersections, the grader came through twice a year and new material was brought in and rolled at least once a year, and the sides of our dead end road were mowed on a regular basis. That continued for several years for basically the same road fees and bond payments we have now, until the mid day massacre where a brand new board fired the GM, the road crew manager, and soon after pretty much everyone else.
I think most will agree w/shockwaverider that the park was basically taken care of pre July 2014 with the same amt of $ and no raised fees. This board can't do chip seal on our budget w/out diverting $ budgeted for road material earmarked for routine road maint, or w/out using our road crew to do the labor. Because the road crew can't keep up due to chip sealing, they've outsourced our main drags. That's not even addressing the neglect of our crossroads. That is where large amts of OUR $ is going, why they've raised our road fees and why our roads and easements are neglected.
Obe, I recall you said you don't live in HPP, you're pro chip seal and you have defended the board over the past year and a half at least. Do you own property in HPP? If you don't, you're not directly affected. OUR $$$ is being fed to the chip seal monster while HPP continues to get no road and easement maint as is mandated in our bylaws and Articles of Incorporation. You don't travel on our roads daily so you aren't directly affected.
Did the membership say it was ok to stop road and easement maint, divert OUR $ so they can proceed on a massive scale to chip seal? NO. Does the board have the right to make that decision? NO. The membership voted at the Oct 2015 membership mtg to have the right to vote on this decision and the board overturned the acts of the membership. They knew it would be a no go so they cut us out of that decision. The intent of our bylaws is that the board takes care of the normal day to day business of the association which is mainly to maintain our roads and easements, be proactive on safety issues and manage our $ wisely. The intent of our bylaws also states that the membership is to be involved in decisions that involves our $. Hence the formation of a Finance Committee every June. They cut the FC out. When decisions impacting the whole park on a grand scale are made, the membership is to be involved. Article VIII Sec 8 Powers and Authority: "Except for the limitations set by the Articles of Incorp and by these bylaws as to actions to be authorized or approved by the membership and subject to the duties of the directors as prescribed by the bylaws, all corporate powers and affairs of the Assoc shall be exercised or controlled by or w/authority of the board." The board needs to focus on the whole paragraph.
Chip seal will change this park forever. That's why it should be the membership's choice, not a handful of volunteers who have no accountability. We're already seeing signs of failure so does that mean in a couple yrs we'll be spending $ to remove it? As predicted, grass is growing through the chip seal and poison will be the only way to manage that. It is also creating a third level of property value inequity: dirt, chip seal and asphalt. We will never see asphalt laid down on any of our roads again bc all the $ is going to chip seal. Many people voted for asphalt when they voted for the bond. If the board wanted to change directions from asphalt to chip seal as improvement, they should've asked us first. A previous board researched chip seal and voted it down after consulting w/an engineer who advised against it. That board chose wisely not to pursue it.
Tink wrote:
Chip seal is only as good as the base it is applied to. On asphalt it is great if you first "caulk" the cracks with a hot tar to make it impervious to water. If applied over dirt or cinder, the dirt or cinder must be stabilized by hydrated lime for dirt, heavy oil tar for cinder/ gravel to make it more like asphalt. Failure to do the prep dooms the chip seal to rapid failure.
This is what a reputable, professional road construction company will do if they want to guarantee their work past the "tail light" warranty (only good until you can't see their tail light as they leave, for those unfamiliar with the term).
As posted earlier on this thread by me, GM Report, "Dust Abatement: Still waiting for the rainy weather to abate enough to allow sealing 26th. The road has been prepped for 3 months and we will not be preparing any other roads until we get this 2-mile section done. There is very little material on the road once prepped for chipseal, so it requires a lot of attention with all the rainfall."
Hence the grass growing through it and the potholes in less than 6 mos. Add to that no engineer, no permits, major $$$$$ decisions made outside of mtgs by people who don't have any finance background=no checks and balances. Chip seal=money pit.
RE: HPP road maintainence - kalakoa - 01-02-2017
Enough already.
Living in HPP is a choice, including all possible consequences of that choice.
RE: HPP road maintainence - shockwave rider - 01-02-2017
If everyone would quit responding to and engaging with the two posters who neither own or live in HPP and just like to stir the pot this would be a far more productive discussion.
Just don't feed the trolls and they will go back under their bridges.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Obie - 01-02-2017
236 replies and 10821 reads !
The OP's original question still hasn't been answered !
Maybe time for Rob to lock this one up.
There appears to be no answer so why waste the bandwidth ?
RE: HPP road maintainence - alaskyn66 - 01-02-2017
The answer was stated if you read between the lines of the whole thread. No money or equiptment to do such maintenance.
RE: HPP road maintainence - macuu222 - 01-02-2017
Yes....it was answered right after the question. Close this down!