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+--- Thread: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th (/showthread.php?tid=6893)
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - missydog1 - 03-04-2010
hey, Terry
I appreciate you responding to me. Thanks so much. I don't know what to do with all the personal information, because I don't have facts to decide with the he said she said, but thanks for explaining why SPACE excluded peregrine from your perspective.
The stuff I'm really asking about is factual stuff that's on record like the history of the use permit applications.
I'm sure your meeting will be of interest and I thank you for inviting me to come see it. I do live rather far away from it.
I wouldn't worry about the topic being hijacked. It just needs to be put back on track by moving away from the personal accusations and back to the verified facts and the law.
Bob, I appreciate your point. If I can rephrase, you are reminding us that special use permits can allow for certain uses like a charter school or a B&B that are not prohibited in an ag zone; however, activities that are only allowed in commercial zoning can't be OK'd by the County issuing an expanded SUP. A rezoning would be required. Is that sort of it?
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - Rob Tucker - 03-04-2010
Non agricultural uses are often permitted in AG zoning by way of a SUP.
By that method a mini industrial park is blooming along Hwy 130 in HPP. There are truck marshaling yards, plumbing supply warehouses and a water hauling company clearly visible from the road by way of an example. All zoned AG1.
In the middle of Pahoa Village the beginnings of a self storage facility is on AG land by way of a SUP. Many, many more examples abound.
In Hilo itself I was always amazed at the way Big Island Candies grew quite huge smack in the middle of a residential neighborhood. I always wondered how happy the neighbors were about it.
While it has it's uses spot zoning and over reliance on SUPs has made kinda of a mess of Hilo.
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - Rob Tucker - 03-04-2010
Over the course of this discussion a thought has occurred to me a few times. There's always another way to vote on issues which doesn't get mentioned enough. A time honored American tradition. It's called voting with your feet.
When Daniel Boone couldn't stand the sight of smoke from his neighbor's chimney he moved to Texas (Sorry about the way that worked out D.B.).
But part of the truth of this that sometimes, if things are not to your liking, the best move is to move on. That philosophy is very likely what brought most of us here to begin with. Hoping to find a Utopian setting where everyone gets along with everyone else all the time and no one's nose ever gets out of joint is a tough order.
I do wish everyone the best of luck. The SPACE issue is very resolvable.
PS: To whomever was suggesting I ban someone..... I don't see the need. I do think that peregrine has brought a lot of perspective to the topic and it helps to understand what is going on. I say that without taking sides.
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - StillHope - 03-04-2010
quote:Great! Smoke them out!!!
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
There's always another way to vote on issues which doesn't get mentioned enough. A time honored American tradition. It's called voting with your feet.
When Daniel Boone couldn't stand the sight of smoke from his neighbor's chimney he moved to Texas (Sorry about the way that worked out D.B.).
The only problem here that only a TURTLE can move out with her house.
With all nice far from SPACE houses available who is going to buy next to it?
So far not a single offer from Space supporters to swap the locations!
Hmm,why is that?
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - Kapohocat - 03-04-2010
From a building industry perspective, did any buildings, if any, that are not in compliance with the COH Bldg codes, or un-permitted get red-tagged?
This also is how things change as the years pass and residents increase - I refer to the "speed bump" referred to in one of the articles in both the 2009 issue and 2010 issue.
http://kalapanaseaviewhawaii.org/Newsletters/seaview-10.pdf
http://kalapanaseaviewhawaii.org/Newsletters/seaview-09.pdf
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - StillHope - 03-04-2010
This shouldn't have come to permitted-unpermited issues.
Most of people wouldn't care if their neighbor had unpermitted garage
unless local kids start rock band rehersals late at night.
Even then most people would talk to the neighbor first.
Was it ever any kind of mediation between the immediate neighbors and SUP holders?
Or the complaints were simply ignored?
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - Bob Orts - 03-04-2010
Kathy, Rob,
I wish it were that simple. You have State law (HRS 205) and you have County law (Chapter 25). They sound alike but with a few differences. Basically, the two do not merge well with each other so who has the better attorneys win before Planning.
Technically, the County cannot approve land use under any permit unless it's written into law as being allowed. State law says they can allow some non-conforming use only if it meets the intention of the zoning and isn't addressed. State law was meant to address activities not yet classified such as a computer server center back in 1980's before they were commonplace.
But HCC specifically states for each zoning: the following is permitted use, or the following is permitted with a use permit, or the following is permitted with a special use permit. Nowhere in any residential or agricultural zoning does it say “or any other use permitted by the County”. Using Hawaii case law, by omitting that option, they didn't grant themselves the ability to approve anything that isn’t specifically mentioned. So they are stuck with exactly what they did write as being allowed.
The County may think they can permit uses not specifically mentioned, but technically and legally they can’t. Just because they let things happen does not mean it was legal. Unfortunately, you need someone with the money or will to challenge it. Until the people challenge it in court, it will continue
As for those with SUPs and conducting non-conforming use on AG land, it also depends on the specific type of AG zoning and the 1980's exemption date.
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - james weatherford - 03-04-2010
Rob,
Excellent points on SUP's in AG zones.
However, being Kentucky-born and Tennesee-educated, I need to correct some of your history:
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
When Daniel Boone couldn't stand the sight of smoke from his neighbor's chimney he moved to Texas (Sorry about the way that worked out D.B.).
Davy Crockett was the one who left (Tennessee) and went to Texas to perish in the Alamo.
Daniel Boone was the one who left Virginia and found a pass through the mountains to get to what became Kentucky.
Aloha
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - Rob Tucker - 03-04-2010
I stand corrected. Davy Crockett it was.
RE: S.P.A.C.E. Community Meeting - March 6th - Rob Tucker - 03-04-2010
Also, pondering on this SPACE issue it seems that one thing that is occurring is that Seaview, like a lot of Puna, is growing. It may have reached some critical mass in population. There has been substantial growth the past ten years. New faces and goals mixing with old faces and goals. It is much less the backwater, laid back rural, the county doesn't care place that it had long been and is in transition to becoming something yet to fully take shape and be defined.
So in at least some ways for Puna, the future is indeed upon us.