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RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Obie - 01-16-2025
Paddleman _ Your girlfriend drug them into the lawsuit.
How on earth could the board defend themselves without involving the investment company that she is defending.
She went to court to protect a third parties deed restrictions.
Should HPPOA go into court and say: "They didn't answer the phone , so we just went ahead? "
If you read the Watamull response very closely , you can read that they did not need her to defend their rights.
Like leilanidude posted, the mailboxes are a needed amenity for this subdivision and I doubt there is a judge anywhere in the world who would rule that mailboxes don't fit in like recreation, churches and schools.
The scheduling hearing is being done by zoom and the general public will not have access.
I'll wait for the courts minutes.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Patricia - 01-16-2025
Good morning Leilanidude and Obie. I do not believe I have been screeching about deed restrictions. I have informed others of them, yes. And here is an interesting fact, the property which the third party (the Watumulls) deeded over to PHH (now HPPOA) are restricted to parks, recreation, and schools (period) and those deed restrictions agreed to by PHH (now HPPOA) are enforceable. However, the way the deeds are written, the restrictions are not only enforceable by the third party (the Watumulls) they are enforceable by ANY and ALL OWNERS in HPP. That language is in the deed (enforceable by OWNERS) in black and white.
Not only do OWNERS have the right to enforce the restrictions, as per the deeds, but any legal and attorney costs that are incurred, in any Owner's effort to enforce those deed restrictions, should they be broken, will be paid by PHH (now HPPOA). Again, this language is ALL laid out in every parcel deed.
So...
1. There was no reason for HPPOA to drag the Watumull's into the lawsuit. Except...
a) HPPOA never received a release from the Watumulls regarding the deed restrictions. Instead, and against Owner concerns, HPPOA literally told Owners (who understand the deed restrictions) to stuff themselves, that the deed restrictions were old, if HPPOA had to they would fight it out in the courts, and that if Owners did not like it (violating deed restrictions) they could "Bring it on!"
b) Because HPPOA never received a release from the Watumulls, regarding the deed restrictions, and have now made a mess of everything, HPPOA has decided to (after the fact) bring the Watumulls in to "clarify," and basically whitewash everything HPPOA has done. As in, none of this is HPPOA's fault; the Watumulls have "unfairly competed" with HPPOA; the Watumulls have "monopolized" the commercial properties- basically saying that EVERYTHING about the deed restrictions which PHH (now HPPOA) WANTED and agreed to are the Watumulls fault.
In Wyoming we had a direct to house, rural mailbox. We received mail 3 days out of the week.
In Ainaloa we had a cluster mailbox at the longhouse. We lucked out. Our neighbors had a PO box in Hilo.
In HPP there were no mailboxes when we moved here. That is just how it was AND there were no PO Boxes. For a while, we received our mail via General Delivery, before renting out a PMB (private mail box).
I am not sure how many, or if any on this forum are reading about the USPS, and Dejoy's crap plan. But rural mail services ALL OVER the U.S. are being scaled back, and slowed down. (There is a good map that shows this.) And if the new administration has its way, there is a good possibility that the USPS will undergo even more changes- as in, privatization.
The USPS is broken (ask the postal workers here, ask the postal workers in Oahu who just recently took to the streets to protest the SLOWNESS of the mail). And substandard Subdivisions in Puna, Hawaii cannot afford the "fix." In fact, if the USPS IS privatized, what then?
Mailboxes? Seriously?
Oh, and that scheduling conference... C'mon, Obie. It is exactly what it says, a "scheduling conference." Nothing is going to be litigated. BUT, interestingly enough... HPPOA has still not complied with Court order and they have not handed over the information that the Plaintiff has requested. Which is why the Plaintiff has had to request the info THREE TIMES now. Why is that? Just HPPOA behaving as they have historically ALWAYS behaved? NON COMPLIANCE UNLESS MADE TO COMPLY?
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - MyManao - 01-16-2025
(Yesterday, 08:18 AM)HiloJulie Wrote:(Yesterday, 08:07 AM)Patricia Wrote: Julie... please..
Have you considered looking into a mirror?
I think you both are missing the most obvious point from your long winded discussions.. you both are EXACTLY alike.
Seriously, I'd say you're twins. Obviously I know neither of you, and you could walk by me without me knowing etc.. but by your prose, by your attitudes, by your writing styles.. you are twins. So, maybe you both need to spend some quality time in front of that mirror?
And please, don't think of this as a dissing of anyone.. I just see so many blinders between the two of you that it warrants a whisper.. I mean your doing it in public.. you both need to consider..
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Obie - 01-16-2025
Patricia
Blah Blah Blah
Your post is so long winded that it's unreadable but I get the gist of it. It's a long winded rehash of the same things you have posted over and over.
Are you talking to the voices in your head ?
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Patricia - 01-16-2025
MyManao, one thing I have noted about you is that you always seem to have something to say about others (good, bad) but never seem to "look in the mirror" when your own behavior is being called into question.
Julie is a lawyer. I am a researcher. Both have knowledge and both are comfortable and have a lot of experience writing. This is not "the point." The point and topic of this post is substandard subdivisions in Puna, Hawaii- roads, road fee money, associations, etc.
Obie, "long winded" or just too much factual information that you cannot disprove, because there are NO FACTS which will disprove my comment?
(Yesterday, 03:37 AM)Patricia Wrote: Edited
I hope you found something enjoyable to laugh at today. Though driving with some dogs can be challenging. We have a dog who gets carsick just jumping into the back-seat.
Why was this comment edited? I did not state anything in the original comment that went against forum rules or was in any way unpleasant. Unless you find my talking about my mother unpleasant?
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - KPHawaii - 01-16-2025
(Yesterday, 03:28 AM)HereOnThePrimalEdge Wrote: But yes, I know others who have conducted that research.
And they found room for 8000 mailboxes at the existing roadside locations? Have you seen their dimensions and how many locations there are? “Others” must be talking about matchbox size Menehune mailboxes. I’m talking about real normal size mailboxes.
Time to jump in. I have stayed silent long enough. I have asked this same question of her for over a year. She has never responded with anything other than, yes, they will fit. I’ve asked for a rough sketch showing some dimensions. Honestly, I’ve asked her at least 10 times. Nothing. Here is the rough drawing I made using real numbers from the county setbacks and easements. They will not fit, as best I can see. There has to be enough room for cars and the mail carrier to drive up and be safe. The easements are 20’. You need 10’ for access and a 10’ setback. Where do CBU’s go? Anyway, ask questions and I’ll try to answer. Sorry of my rough drawing but like Patricia, I’m busy with a lot of other things like beautifying the mail parks, helping with the HPPOA website and the Newsletter.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - HiloJulie - 01-16-2025
(Yesterday, 06:54 PM)MyManao Wrote: I think you both are missing the most obvious point from your long winded discussions.. you both are EXACTLY alike.
Seriously, I'd say you're twins. Obviously I know neither of you, and you could walk by me without me knowing etc.. but by your prose, by your attitudes, by your writing styles.. you are twins. So, maybe you both need to spend some quality time in front of that mirror?
And please, don't think of this as a dissing of anyone.. I just see so many blinders between the two of you that it warrants a whisper.. I mean your doing it in public.. you both need to consider..
First, I would like to say Thank You for FINALLY making some form of a retort that is not full of sexually deviant disgusting terms, name calling and all of the like.
Now, to your point, how does Patricia making hundreds of posts saying something, be it anything, on any topic, compare to me, or anyone else for that matter, asking questions about those comments, very rarely getting any form of intelligible answer and when “called out” to give an answer to these questions, get nothing but “stop bullying me, stop insulting me” and all the comparable other things said, compare to anything I, or anyone else for that matter, have said?
Where is your comment inferring that Patricia and “The Dude,” HOTPE, Obie, hell even Moderator 2, asking questions and getting pages of blather or the sounds of crickets in return being Patricia’s “twins?”
Having said that, to me, this case is nothing but “revenge” of people who for whatever reason, get their jollies off in doing so. It really does not have anything to do with mailboxes, deed restrictions etc., nope, it’s just about “revenge” for past perceived injustices. And adding the ADA lawsuit on top of all of this, further reinforces my personal opinion.
Further, the whole premise of this suit, is to “try it in the court of public opinion.” And while HPPOA’s attorneys did an absolute pitiful job of trying to get a Protective Order instituted, the premise of the need for a protective order is loud and clear.
And now, we see the influx of a whole bunch of “new” posters coming in, and, well, continuing to try this case “in the court of public opinion.” I would not be surprised to eventually find out that not only have the HPPOA AND Watumull attorneys read all of these social media postings, but actually do something with them in furtherance of their defenses of this case.
If this case was brought by a plaintiff with a reputable good competent lawyer representing them, the first thing that lawyer would require his client to do is STAY OFF THE INTERNET. Further, a reputable good competent lawyer would tell his/her client to “SHUT THE %$*& UP.
But then, if that was true, we would not have had all this fun and excitement on PunaWeb for the last few months with what now 6 plus threads and hundreds of posts.
Go figure!
At any event, again I thank you for your comment without your proven consistent need to display your sexual depravity but saying that Patricia and I are like “twins” is like saying all Hawaiians LOVE tourists!
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - KPHawaii - 01-16-2025
(Yesterday, 05:26 PM)leilanidude Wrote: Paddleman - I can understand your logic, but mailboxes are a community use, seemingly fitting under the deed restrictions, especially for a subdivision that needs them. As these are 20 acres parcels, obviously, roads would have to be used to get to the new mailboxes (hence spending road money on roads). Cost to have an attorney send the Watamull's a letter asking shouldn't cost but an hour or two of time for the attorney. For HPP, which has a several million $ budget, cost should never be an issue to spend $1000.
Personally, I think that getting permission and actually doing the mailbox setups will create additional opportunities for HPP to create further community minded developments on these parcels, for the good of all residents.
Oh my. So much logic. Sometimes attorney's and others, get stuck with only reading the text and not truly looking at common sense and logic. At the time the deeds were written, there wasn't even any thought of mail delivery and how that would come about or affect the 13,000 residents of HPP. Times have changed and I believe you are exactly correct. Thank you for showing us how common sense should work.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - Patricia - 01-16-2025
KP, you are not the only person who has "volunteered" for HPPOA. Many of us have donated HOURS, RESOURCES and MONEY (which we did not even ask HPPOA to reimburse us for). You're just one of an active group of us. It is just that right now, you are in favor and support some on this board.
There was a large study and information that was put together and that group TRIED to present that information at an Owners' meeting two years ago, but Fearless Leader and her group totally shut them down- even though that group was ON the agenda to present.
Unlike you, I don't have every answer to everything. Why don't you ask the group who DOES have those answers. In fact, WHY didn't Fearless Leader let them present? POST their findings for Owners to see? Actually, no need to answer that question. I already know WHY.
RE: Roads Are Easements Not Planned Communities Or HOAs - KPHawaii - 01-16-2025
(Yesterday, 05:17 PM)Paddleman Wrote:(Yesterday, 02:18 PM)leilanidude Wrote: Patricia -The question I have asked (and so have some others) has not been answered. All this screeching about deed restrictions from you and naming the Watamulls....leilanidude- A previous HPPOA Board year's and year's ago where told to have their attorney draft something and to submit it the Watumull's attorney regarding the Deed Restriction changes that they wanted on these specific Deed Restricted parcels.That Board decided not to pursue this because of several reasons (for ex. costs $$$$, attorney fees etc). So nothing was done.
Has anyone ever formally asked the Watamulls if putting the mailbox clusters on those 20 acre parcels is OK with them?
So that brings us to the current situation. According to the current HPPOA Board (President) they wrote one (1) letter to the Watumull's and received NO response. So based on this ONE NO RESPONSE this Board has plowed ahead with spending over 1 MILLION dollars (by the time this is all done, it could be closer to 2 MILLION) of Restricted Road money. Would you agree that writing ONE letter and getting absolutely NO RESPONSE from the other party on the Deed Restricted (parcels)(Watamull's are the original developer who gave HPP these four 20 acre parcels) is good business sense. I highly doubt that most companies or individuals (like you or me) would want to roll the dice and spend that kind of money, but hey that's JMO.
Some people think this isn't a big deal but for example:
Say you, your family or friends OWN a piece of property and I decide that I want to build MY house on this property. There are current Restrictions that say (and you originally agreed to when you purchased it) that a private home cannot be built on it. I choose to ignore the facts and build MY house on your property and say to you "Sue me I'll take my chances" in a lawsuit because I had an attorney say that it was ok. Do you think CASE LAW would agree with that or because I wanted to do that it's legal, probably NOT.
Recently in the news (some of you may have heard about this) there is a current lawsuit that a HPP homeowner and a builder who built a home on her property is now moving through the court process now. This homeowner didn't find out that any of this had taken place until a Realtor (that had actually sold the property/house) called her because something came up in the Title process. Just an example that things like this do occur.
HPPOA has filed a third-party lawsuit against the Watumull's and have dragged them into this current lawsuit. The Watumull's have responded to HPPOA disagreeing with all of their arguments. So at this point they are NOT in agreement with how HPPOA is using these Deed Restricted parcels.
Just a note the Scheduling Conference for this Lawsuit is scheduled for next month February 14 if anyone cares.
Apologies to everyone reading this for it being so long but I want to clarify what is/has actually taken place.
Appreciate all of the different opinions and conversations here and I look forward to more and others, Mahalo.
You have some of this correct but certainly not all. Unfortunately, all information in any case is not divuldged, as you well know. I would never be so smug as to think I would win a case, without ALL the information. And I have never seen anything that shows the Watumull’s are against the mail parks, only that they do not agree with what was said about "why" they put the deed restrictions on the 20 acre parcels.