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+--- Thread: **This Post is about HPP and HPPOA Dysfunction** (renamed to spare the uninterested) (/showthread.php?tid=23454)
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - kalakoa - 11-22-2024
Touché.
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Obie - 11-22-2024
I don't think a judge is going to rule that the mailboxes are illegal and have to be removed.
The USPS has donated $2,000,000 worth of mailboxes and $500,000 for installation.
HPPOA has spent close to $600,000 on preparation of the mailbox sites.
The Watamull Corp doesn't want any part of this but I really doubt that they can claim mailboxes are not permitted on that land.
Look at all of the subdivisions around us. Their mailboxes are near their community centers in a park. Drive up Ainaloa Blvd and take a look.
Patricia will now pop up here and puke out the same crap she has been spreading around for over a year.
A majority of owners in HPP want and are waiting on these mailboxes.
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Patricia - 11-22-2024
(11-22-2024, 08:47 PM)Obie Wrote: I don't think a judge is going to rule that the mailboxes are illegal and have to be removed.
The USPS has donated $2,000,000 worth of mailboxes and $500,000 for installation.
HPPOA has spent close to $600,000 on preparation of the mailbox sites.
The Watamull Corp doesn't want any part of this but I really doubt that they can claim mailboxes are not permitted on that land.
Look at all of the subdivisions around us. Their mailboxes are near their community centers in a park. Drive up Ainaloa Blvd and take a look.
Patricia will now pop up here and puke out the same crap she has been spreading around for over a year.
A majority of owners in HPP want and are waiting on these mailboxes.
Oh dear, ouch, Mr. O. Always so "pleasant" hearing from you.
A couple of things...
Just as I stated before, when it comes to contracts and the enforcement of them, it doesn't matter what you "think." If you agreed to the terms of the contract, then you are bound by that contract. Paradise Hui Hanalike (now HPPOA) agreed to the deed restrictions because that is what they wanted (parks, schools, and recreation). So, now stating that the Watumulls manipulated, deceived, and unlawfully placed restrictions on land that THIS HPPPOA board now wants to develop is ridiculous and untrue.
Second, I would be interested to know how well you know the Watumulls and why you "think" they "do not want any part of this." The Watumull family has been in Hawaii a very long time. They amassed a fortune from nothing, have contributed large sums of money to their community, and are well connected. As HPPOA stated, the Watumulls have "competent attorneys." In what universe do you "think" they would, or should sit back and ignore having their name thrown around in court, accusing them of "deceptive and illegal practices?" I would imagine their attorneys are very familiar with real estate law, land court, and the Watumull's business. I doubt the Watumull's attorneys have to "think." I am pretty sure they KNOW.
As for Ainaloa, my family and I used to live there- had a mailbox there- a whole different story from HPP. Ainaloa, unlike HPP IS a planned community and does have an HOA. Ainaloa, unlike HPP, does have actual common areas (not just easements). Ainaloa, unlike HPP, have had the mailboxes you are speaking of, by their community center, for decades- again, we had one. And any new boxes Ainaloa installs will be on a common area which is NOT deed restricted. Comparing Ainaloa to HPP is like comparing a bat to a bird- totally different animal.
Lastly, some of you stating that the "majority of owners" in HPP "want and are waiting for these mailboxes" is just a "truth" that some of you "think" but so far have been unable to prove. There are over 8,000 properties in HPP. Many owners in HPP own more than one lot, including the Watumulls who own quite a lot of acreage (probably as much or more than HPPOA). So, instead of stating "the majority" how about if you share a "nice, round figure" (as the HPPOA president likes to say) to back that statement up?
I am sure that once you read this comment Mr O. and have had time to digest, you will have plenty to gnash on about, in your "pleasant" way.
Have a great day.
[attachment=337]
Also, since when have the "donated" mailboxes increased in worth from a million, to then "over $1,000,000," to 2 million?
And check out the other figures stated on the attached "report" from May 2023. How "close" or even realistic are these figures? Do we know? Have the actual, true amounts ever been shared with HPP owners?
What about parcel lockers? The USPS did not "donate" parcel lockers. And using information the president emailed me back in May of 2024, if HPPOA actually purchases even close to the number of parcel lockers needed, the cost (conservatively estimated) will be in excess of $300,000.
WHERE are the costs? A breakdown? WHY is HPPOA not sharing with HPP owners?
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Punatang - 11-23-2024
since when have the "donated" mailboxes increased in worth from a million, to then "over $1,000,000," to 2 million?
Gotta side with Obie on this one. Everything doubled in the last three or four years.
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Patricia - 11-23-2024
(11-23-2024, 04:12 AM)Punatang Wrote: since when have the "donated" mailboxes increased in worth from a million, to then "over $1,000,000," to 2 million?
Gotta side with Obie on this one. Everything doubled in the last three or four years.
Aloha, Punatang.
Nah. That is hype. The mailboxes were donated in 2022 (that's right, 2022). Whatever they "cost" then is what they cost. Nothing to do with inflation.
In addition, take a look at the boxes on 4th. Military surplus.
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Punatang - 11-23-2024
With all due respect Patricia, worth and cost are not the same thing. Asserting that they are, calls all of your theories into question.
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Patricia - 11-23-2024
(11-23-2024, 06:17 AM)Punatang Wrote: With all due respect Patricia, worth and cost are not the same thing. Asserting that they are, calls all of your theories into question.
Aloha Punatang,
Then I suppose your way of thinking would/will call into question ALL of HPPOA's original figures and costs, regarding the mailbox sites?
And you're correct. Just because someone is willing to pay $100K for a Tesla Cyber Truck does not mean it is actually worth that amount of money.
Cost and worth are relative terms and inflation makes everything worth less but cost a lot more. That said, HPP owners are paying A LOT more road fee money and will get less on this mailbox project (for "free") than "planned."
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - kalakoa - 11-23-2024
If you agreed to the terms of the contract, then you are bound by that contract.
I suggest that "law on the books" is a form of contractual obligation, and the law says "roads to be paved before final subdivision plat approval". Because the subdivision was created illegally, I would question the very existence of HPPOA along with any action they have taken (or not taken) since they were formed.
Not that I have standing to do so.
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - Punatang - 11-23-2024
I suppose your way of thinking would...
My way of thinking is that words have meaning. When someone tries to change the words that I have said to further their cause, their honor comes into question. Words matter and I doubt there has been another new Punawebber who has ever cast more of them on the rest of us in such a short time.
So, you suppose wrong. Personally I could not care less about HPPs mailboxes, HOA, roads, endless drama etc. I do care about people and I appreciate the ones who demonstrate their passion so until now, I found you to be very interesting. Twisting my words however smacks of dishonesty and desperation so I'm less inclined to check in on this thread going forward.
I hope y'all get it figured out. Peace.
PS: My gut tells me that families need mailboxes close to home. It's better for their well being, the environment, and the community as a whole. Maybe it's really about that.
RE: *This Post Is About HPP* Waikahekahe, WATUMULL'S, Owners/Members Meeting 10/27/2024 - My 2 cents - 11-23-2024
"My gut tells me that families need mailboxes close to home. It's better for their well being, the environment, and the community as a whole. Maybe it's really about that."
I don't think anyone is disputing that there is a need for mailboxes. The issue is whether the process being used to fulfill that need is legal. That's what is being argued in court. All the talk about costs and trying to create a dispute over something that isn't being disputed are just diversions to avoid discussing the real issue.
It's a good thing this case isn't being tried here in this forum, although some would probably prefer that it was.
(11-23-2024, 04:12 PM)kalakoa Wrote: If you agreed to the terms of the contract, then you are bound by that contract.
I suggest that "law on the books" is a form of contractual obligation, and the law says "roads to be paved before final subdivision plat approval". Because the subdivision was created illegally, I would question the very existence of HPPOA along with any action they have taken (or not taken) since they were formed.
Not that I have standing to do so.
Is there a link that you could provide for the "law on the books" or some other method of reading it? I am not doubting you, I'm more interested in what some of the other requirements were at the time.