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+--- Thread: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access (/showthread.php?tid=16163)
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - kalakoa - 07-27-2015
by the laws of Hawaii, due process was followed
Then the protestors would rather that the laws of Hawaii did not apply.
Again, either they're American citizens (bound by due process) or they're not (a different venue is required).
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - Guest - 07-27-2015
PTed, my part of feinting. I do appreciate you trying to straiten out the confusion surrounding the wekiu bugs existence. Hard to imagine a flightless bug like the wekiu just FLEW to other cones when they were disturbed by the current OBSERVATORIES practices. The wekiu bug may be in a dire situation due to the disruption of their environment, so they may be displaced and trying to live in other places(under rocks)now that the astronomers have moved in?.
The TMT has these giant lenses that need protection from the harsh environment atop maunakea, so they want to build a 180 foot high dome to protect this non-living technology from the often damaging high winds. The wekiu bug that was apparently thriving atop maunakea before this TMT project(removed from the possible endangered list in 2011), now must fend for itself looking for new cover from the harsh climate( possibly under the sacred rocks now).
Sure wish rules or laws were put in place to protect maunakeas fragile or rare environment. That way these scopes would have to build around these cones(home to the wekiu bug) they would have to not change the landscape as much. Maybe even have rules or laws that would have these telescope corporations return the used or abused aina back to its original state. If the telescopes can't tend to their leased aina as they preach or promise then don't mislead the public please.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - opihikao - 07-27-2015
quote:Got it, mahalo. The word "listing" in flyingsurfer's post was apparently a typo; which threw me off.
Originally posted by HiloPuna
ophikao, I'll jump in....to facilitate for flyingsurfer;
You wrote in your prior post;
"They" did....for years. Decades. No one ("of decision making" stature) listened. Thus, we are where we are. "
Presumptively in your sentence "They" were the past protestors or opponents against the uses that DLNR was approving at that time. These "decision makers" who, you say, "weren't listening" we're, from flyingsurfers perspective, listening but not agreeing with the arguemets then being made.
In other words, by the laws of Hawaii, due process was followed, arguments by opponents were heard, decisions were then made, and therefore the "protectors" have no legal basis for what they are doing.
It's not correct to say no one listened. The arguments of Piscotta, et al, were heard, and the BLNR, Circuit Courts, etc didn't agree with their arguments. But they did have a significant effect in that they slowed the process down and gained meaningful concessions.
So... They listened but didn't agree.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - kalakoa - 07-27-2015
Sure wish rules or laws were put in place to protect maunakeas fragile or rare environment.
Who will pay for these? With what money? Protestors have shut down MK tourism and would see the telescopes removed ... what other revenue does this island have, besides the tax mining?
Maybe even have rules or laws
BLNR can't seem to enforce the rules and laws they already have -- even with additional "emergency rules". I don't see how adding more regulations will have any effect.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - SBH - 07-27-2015
This argument is getting more and more heated as the temperature has been rising all around us. This is not good for our community, our island and is even causing division within families and friends. So who has ideas on how we're going to solve this situation before it gets too ugly? What do you recommend the governor do?
The way I see it the only way to achieve a compromise so that the Hawaiians will allow the TMT to be built at this point is to decommission many more telescopes, but there's just too much money invested for that to realistically happen in the near future.
The best possible solution may be to put it to a vote in November 2016. Very few people have been involved in these decisions, let us all decide. Whatever the people decide is what we live by. It would have to be a Hawaii Island only vote though or else this issue will be decided by one million people on Oahu that can't even see Mauna Kea.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - kalakoa - 07-27-2015
What do you recommend the governor do?
Give Hawaii Island back to the Hawaiians, with a trade-in program and subsidized relocation for those who must evacuate to Maui.
If the new owners don't want to lease land to TMT, it gets built on Maui.
As part of the settlement, all existing land claims are resolved: everything except Hawaii Island is permanently and irrevocably a US State.
Now ... where on Maui can we create a massive "private agricultural" subdivision for the shack-dwellers? Or would the "shack lifestyle" be considered "Hawaiian enough" that those people could simply pay their property tax to the newly reconstituted Isle of Hawaii?
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-27-2015
Whatever the people decide is what we live by.
Do you think the same people who show no respect for a seven year approval process will agree to a one day election they can't win?
All it would do is provide temporary jobs for election workers. Although, that might get some protestors off the mountain, as their bank accounts must be tapped out by now?
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-27-2015
Now ... where on Maui can we create a massive "private agricultural" subdivision for the shack-dwellers?
Almost the entire south side of Haleakala from Keokea to Kaupo is empty. Of course, there's no water... so the ag use would be restricted to growing those big prickly pear cactus seen on the back roads of lower Kula. I think they fruit once a year. Or maybe a kiawe firewood business.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - PunaMauka2 - 07-27-2015
SBH,
any solution won't be found by pretending such versions of "compromise" don't basically amount to extortion fueled by reflexive manipulation.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - kimo wires - 07-27-2015
We need real solutions.^^ These Fantasy theories are a waste of time.
http://welivemana.com/articles/native-hawaiian-astrophysicists-mana‘o-thirty-meter-telescope
I think the biggest misconception of the public is that millions of dollars are being made on Mauna Kea by these telescopes and that’s why the University of Hawai‘i is so interested in doing it because it’s making so much money, and that’s not true.