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+--- Thread: Lava Boat Tours? (/showthread.php?tid=11684)
RE: Lava Boat Tours? - Bullwinkle - 04-03-2013
Spent most of my working life supervising crews on USGC certified vessels and working with the Coast Guard through bi annual inspections - just like Lava Tours is required to do.
Have been on Lava Tours boat
Wish my crews were as good with details, customers and safety.Trying to match boat handling skills will take a few years of training..... we stay in the bay.....
These folks are professional and responsible and up to speed with Coast Guard safety requirements and providing a once in a lifetime excursion
not to be missed if you have any adventure in your soul........
RE: Lava Boat Tours? - Bullwinkle - 04-03-2013
"Common sense never seems to come into play in Hawaii.Guess when some little kid gets chopped up into fish-bait something will be done."
Agreed - I feel that way every time I see folks swimming in a BOAT RAMP ..... kind of like having a pic nic on a runway or a volley ball game on the freeway
common sense - certainly a "local rules" place to keep it all safe - in the real world this would not be allowed.
This shared use will end as soon as there is a major liability county or state) pay out in my opinion
RE: Lava Boat Tours? - Greg - 04-03-2013
If shared use ends who will retain benefits? The hundreds(no exaggeration) of recreational swimmers/surfers per day, or the half dozen or so tour operators and fishermen?
Shane, Thanks for posting. Would you please comment on your;
1. Maneuvering through the toxic plume(pictures)
2. approaching the unstable lava shelf within 25-50 feet(personally witnessed)
3.scooping up molten material from the deck of your boat (video)
I admit that these events occurred more than a year ago, but didn't inspire confidence in your judgement. Have you changed your operational procedures?
RE: Lava Boat Tours? - Bullwinkle - 04-03-2013
The activities of operators limited by liability insurance pay outs - one or two stupid stunts and the boat company is out of business
When one writes check in excess of 20k$ for insurance - they pay attention
I may have seen what to poster saw - in my mind Shane a good showman rather than a dare devil
Looks like he may have fooled you..... with all due respect ....its a boat tour in Hawaii
Like I said being in the industry I hired captains for their ability to put on a show -
any deckhand can seemingly can drive the boat, not all captains can......look at the side of a boat before boarding it - grin
After Nixons henchman perfected the jungle ride in disney land (true story) .... The bar pretty high for entertainment value on boat tours
just my 2 cents from the front lines
RE: Lava Boat Tours? - Bullwinkle - 04-03-2013
Shane:
I have company coming - 'be workin ya for a deal - I want to troll for fish as well on the way out as well- can I keep em this time?
Fair winds -
nope not here to compete, dont have the b- b- ---fortitude to do that launch ramp - grin and Aloha
RE: Lava Boat Tours? - ericlp - 04-03-2013
Interesting points. I've noticed lot's of people going in to the water from the boat docks around here. There is just no way to get in from the cliffs safely.
It would be nice if the state took some cement trucks and made a concrete dock 5' into a some of the parks around here so people could safely enter the water to cool down for a quick swim. I'd support that!
I guess that would increase the risk of people drowning ... Tourist going in on the wrong days would make things interesting. I guess a bad idea for tourist having a false sense of security not knowing when it's ok to go in.
RE: Lava Boat Tours? - seekir - 04-03-2013
I was a fixed-wing tour pilot and made almost daily visits to the ocean lava entry points for a period of years. I have to say that film/video I've seen of lava tour boats and others offshore the ocean lava has been pretty alarming. Last night on the local news there was footage of some kayakers only a few feet from the shore and flow.
The bench collapses are probably quite brief, I only witnessed one during the years that I was flying tours, but the event was an explosive shock, and watching it in flight offshore made it quite clear to me how hikers have been killed in the area in the past. When the weight of the burgeoning mass becomes too much for the semi-solid structure of the bench where it sits on the steep submarine slope, it separates from the shore and slides underwater. When the fracture I witnessed with my two Japanese passengers occurred in the skin of the ledge and the collapse initiated, the molten core of the bench was briefly visible before the sudden release of this extremely hot mass caused an immediate and violent reaction with the ocean water - which vaporized explosively. Solid and molten rock was flung hundreds of feet through the air in all directions, including offshore. Scalding sea water, vapor, and other gases were released and eventually rose several thousand feet as we circled, the heated plume eventually caused clouds to form as the heated moisture-laden air rose into the cooler higher altitudes.
Witnessing this from our safe altitude was a revelation, I simply hadn't understood the nature of the bench structure which is not solid but a molten mass skinned with a layer of cooler solidified lava that cannot support the bench after sufficient accumulation has built up. When this inevitable moment arrives the mass separates from the shore and slides down the steep submarine slope. I suppose Shane and other mariners who approach the area may understand this, and some may assume the risks hoping that a collapse won't occur during their approach. I did not understand it, and submit this account because there may be some boaters who are as ignorant as I was before I witnessed an actual collapse and realized the dangers posed to viewers who approach the area too closely.
RE: Lava Boat Tours? - LavaOcean - 04-03-2013
Everyday before approaching the ocean entry there are many factors we assess before deciding where the best & safest view of the ocean entry will be & if we deem the area unsafe most are happy to view the spectacle offshore a bit further without an issue. To all that are interested bench collapses happen more regularly them most think. From last night at around 10PM when I was last out at the ocean entry to 530AM when we arrived onsite Id say we lost at least 1/2 acre or so. Now Ive been fortunate to see many of these happen the largest of which an acre or two as well as the before and after from the 65 acre break years ago. One mus understand how deep the water surrounding these flow are generally 150+ feet less then 100 ft from shore. Which explains why for the most part very little recourse is felt when large areas of the coast collapse into the sea. Most of the time a small ripple occurs but no more then the average chop produced by east Hawaii swell & wind chop. That said the land based hiking operators are exposed to much more risk actually standing on these newly created benches for extended amounts of time. BTW the ocean has been amazing over the past month or so yielding some of the calmest waters Ive ever seen here in Puna so for those who fear the rough Pohoiki waters but still would like to experience the coast from the ocean side it doesnt get better then now heres a linke to the NOAA marine website http://www.prh.noaa.gov/hnl/pages/CWF.php & another we like to use is Underground weather http://www.wunderground.com/MAR/PH/122.html
Shane Turpin
Lava Ocean Adventures
RE: Lava Boat Tours? - Mel - 04-06-2013
Hi all. I am a mainlander who visited Hawaii back in January. I rode on one of Shane's daytime tours and am happy to share my experience - good, bad, ugly - as honestly and objectively as I can, though I will admit that the only reason I found this forum was because I have had my concerns raised ever since that tour and have been searching for more solid information about it than most sites offer.
That's what led me to find this forum and to want to talk frankly and honestly about what's going on here. It kind of surprises me that even well-published articles don't delve into much factual information. One article - you all probably know the one - praises Shane's operation for the amazing thrill (which I can't deny either), and implies that it's safe simply because the author "felt" safe. There can be a big difference between feeling safe and being safe - why is no one talking about THIS in that article, or in any article I can find?
I'm not sure what I think on a lot of points, but I do think there's enough evidence of real and serious risk here to warrant the attention to these tours and their practices. I will say, too, that I think it is unethical to expose kids to these risks, however big or small the degree of risk might be. The potential for disaster may be small (or not, I'm not convinced either way), but the degree of disaster could be anything leading up to loss of life.
Adults can choose what they do. Kids don't and can't, so I believe they deserve to be protected from such unnecessary and potentially grave risks. My opinion is that it is unethical for tour operators to take out anyone less than 18.
As for the adults... well... we can talk about that, and I'd love to get some more good information about the real degree of risk, past "incidents" experienced by anyone nearing lava ocean entries (via land or sea) and the circumstances surrounding said incidents, and whatever else people want to share.
Shane claims he's had no incidents and maybe that's true, though I've read plenty of complaints and anecdotal reports of "incidents" - one story reports Shane acknowledging burnt spots on his (smaller?) boat from falling and obviously dangerous debris. Hmm. Documented in any reliable way? Probably not. Two complaints with the better business bureau - one resolved, one not. Would love to learn more about those.
I'm focusing on Shane's operation because it seems to be the one most people think is most reputable, and it is the one I was on, myself, but I'd be interested in any information about any of the lava boat tours or hikes (Shane, don't you offer hikes, too?).
I know no one here knows me from Adam, and maybe I won't be welcome on a forum that's really geared toward locals. If so, that's fine. I'm not here to create unnecessary drama or to be underhanded or dishonest or whatever else. I'm here to offer whatever information I can, and to hopefully gain some, too. Hope that's OK.
Thoughts? Comments? Discussion? References? (questions?) Lay it on me.
RE: Lava Boat Tours? - Bullwinkle - 04-07-2013
As we move into the topic of operator safety It is a good thing to remember that the passenger boat industry is one of the most regulated industries in the US
We in the industry answer to the feds, state, county as well insurance company requirements. Than the consumer has a chance to vote with their wallets. Most of us have a 100 - 150 day season to make the overhead - and hope fully eek out a living - I dont know any one thats ever gotten rich from running a boat.....its a lifestyle....
Think I could have an objective view of your industry spending an hour or two at your factory or office? ... Lots of bankers to deal with before we get to tour operators on my list - grin
Bear in mind this is some ones lively hood you are commenting on..... An understanding of the applicable CFR's would be a good place to start