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+--- Thread: How real is the rascism ? (/showthread.php?tid=12950)
RE: How real is the rascism ? - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 01-07-2014
In American Samoa the families still retain possession of their land, as a triangular shaped property with the wide end at the ocean, and the tip in the mountains. When a child grows up and wants to build a house, that child negotiates with the rest of the family; parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, sisters, brothers, cousins, for a location that is acceptable. It's not easy because other family members may want their own child to have the area in question. Once resolved, a neighboring family could still claim it is part of their property because the boundaries are subject to interpretation. 2/3rds of Samoans live in Hawaii or California, so have to get a job and rent or buy a house anyway.
If a Hawaiian person is angry about what happened 120 years ago, and believe that someone took their land, they aren't considering how complex family land rights can actually be. Someone did take land from the Hawaiian people, probably a white person, but if that hadn't happened it doesn't mean that all Hawaiians would now have a free house and yard.
RE: How real is the rascism ? - seventhreads - 01-07-2014
very good point, primal edge.
you know, in africa, sometimes people there die of many different causes. it could be malaria, a hippo attack, you name it. so while it is true that anywhere from 5-50 million africans perished in the atlantic slave trade, that same amount would have eventually died of natural causes had they stayed on the african continent!
i wonder if you ask a native hawaiian if they would rather still have their original traditional way of dividing their own land versus working at wal-mart to pay rent to a white person what they would choose? surely it would be wal-mart - there was no minimum wage way back then, you know. must have been so hard.
primal edge - i totally agree with you. i mean 120 years ago is like ancient times. being mad about things from back then is like holding on to resentment from the stone age. these ungrateful hawaiians should really learn to just move on, it's the modern world, baby! we have hyrdrogen bombs and striped toothpaste for goddsakes, as my friend john west would say. besides, i'm sure hawaii is so much more beautiful now than it was then, and life soooo much better.
btw that last paragraph you wrote is perhaps the most ignorant piece of garbage i have ever read anywhere. it is exactly that kind of attitude which causes any racism you may feel directed towards you. well that and the fact that their land was stolen from their great-grandparents 120 years ago.
RE: How real is the rascism ? - Rob Tucker - 01-07-2014
I don't know you seventhread and you are new here but my council is to avoid giving advise to the native Hawaiians.
RE: How real is the rascism ? - Hawaii Bound - 01-07-2014
If you want to know if racism is in Hawaii just read seventhreads comments. That should sufficient to answer your questions.
Referring to white people as Haole (this person means it in a derogatory fashion as you can tell from other comments)
This individual finds it hilarious that a white person is discriminated against. You know because only a black person can actually feel discriminated against. I actually find this particular statement very disheartening in the simple fact that it is coming from a person who supposedly experienced racism themselves. I would think that someone who experienced racism would not find it funny at all, let alone hilarious, when someone else is experiencing racism.
Pay rent to a white person(because you all know only white people can own anything)
I could throw derogatory terms around as well but that would be considered racist but it's OK for a black person I guess, right seventhreads??
To answer your question, yes it does exist here. Same as anywhere else. Any where you go there are assholes and it's no different here. However, there are a lot less here than any other place I have been. Some people (seventhreads) have blatant racism that they display even on an internet forum.
Here is something I wrote on another forum about five years ago:
As I do not currently live on the island take my advice/experience over the past eight years with a grain of salt or as the gospel...your choice.
Here is some quick background information. We are currently in the process of moving to Hawaii. We were married on the islands eight years ago and have returned every year since. From the moment I stepped off the airplane I knew I was home even though I had never been there. The islands truly do call to you. You know if you belong there or not. If you have no idea what I am talking about...you don’t belong. Yes, I am sure I will have numerous people tell me I have no clue what I am talking about as I do not currently live there full time. I will tell those people they are wrong. I know I belong there, I know the islands are calling to me; I know that Hawaii is home and I know I will make it there.
Why do I not live there now? We have been very careful in planning our move to our new home. My wife has gone back to college to get her Clinical Nurse Leader (Masters). I know that does not guarantee her a job but I have confidence she will find one. I will be leaving a very comfortable and well paying job here on the mainland to move “home”. We are making sure that our “I’s” are dotted and our “T’s” are crossed. Getting everything in order to make the transition as smooth as possible. I want to make a contribution to the islands, to the people and to “Aloha”. I don’t want to just move there with no plan and “see what happens”. I am shocked at the amount of people who say they have never visited the islands, they are about to lose everything they own and file bankruptcy but they are going to move to Hawaii and everything will be OK. I will NEVER understand that but I digress. OK, now that is out of the way let me get to my point...
Hawaii is an extremely diverse place in both locale and ethnicity. Yes it is part of the United States but it is a foreign country at the same time. However, in all of its diversity it is no different then any other place in the world in the fact that your interaction with people is what you make of it. For the MOST part you are treated as you treat others. I have had NOTHING but positive experience with everyone I have ran into on the islands. It doesn’t matter if they have been White, Polynesian, Asian, Hawaiian or whatever. We have been to a locals beach and been invited to join them in their pick nick. That DOES NOT happen back in the mainland.
Of course, there is always an exception to every rule. I have received the “stink eye” twice in the eight years we have been going to the islands. Both times it was by a very young local. (Teens to extremely early 20’s). They seem to be mad for no reason. The older locals and everyone else we have ran into are MUCH friendlier then ANY PLACE I have been on the mainland. It is the interaction that you have with those people and the response you give them that determines your outcome and experience.
I do not think it is so much being white as it is being American. Let’s face it, nobody likes Americans. Even Americans hate Americans. We are brash, arrogant and NEVER wrong. It has nothing to do with our attitudes because we are NEVER wrong. It is ALWAYS the people that we are interacting with and their issues NEVER EVER our attitudes, NEVER EVER because we are always right!
For the most part, of the American people that visit the islands, they are white. That is the interaction that the people of Hawaii have is with White American Tourists. If you are dealing with that level of arrogance everyday of your life...you’re going to be stand-offish as well.
I was at the Home Depot purchasing a door for our house as a White American Tourist was giving a local boy working at the Home Depot hell. He was screaming about how back in the states they carry this and they have that and Blah Blah Blah. The boy stood there being humiliated for no reason. I stepped in, informed the arrogant white tourist that at his age I would expect him to be more educated and be familiar enough with geography to know two things. One Hawaii is part of the United States and two he is not back home. He game me an extremely evil look and walked away. The clerk whispered “Thank you” we joked a little and I went about my business. How can you deal with that every day and still keep a positive attitude? It is no wonder we occasionally get the stink eye.
With all the tourists visiting the islands, screaming, shouting, letting everyone know they pay for everything, no one would be able to live there if it wasn’t for them, telling them how backwards they are, so forth and so on its a wonder that ANYONE who lives on the islands full time can even interact with the tourists. Remember, if you are white you are a tourist until you get to know people, understand them and get accepted by them. None of which will ever happen if you take your American attitude to the islands. People come and go constantly on Hawaii. Why does someone really want to take the time to get to know you when statistically, you are going to be gone in a year or so?
I believe the islands have a way of letting the people in that belong and chewing up and spitting the rest out. Yes, I am white.
Again, that is just my personal experience and my two cents worth...
RE: How real is the rascism ? - Hawaii Bound - 01-07-2014
Now that I live here full time...it's still all true. I have never lived in a friendly place in my life. I have been welcomed with open arms both at work and in public with complete strangers. I have been invited to luaus, Christmas gatherings, 1st birthdays and the list goes on and on.
I have been in Hilo a few times when the car in front of me stalls and I get out to help push them along. By the time I start pushing another 4 or 5 people come out to help. In the mainland people would just honk their horns and flip you off because you are in their way. It's really different out here.
Regarding my wife, she found a good job within 30 days of moving here. Like I said five years ago, "I believe the islands have a way of letting the people in that belong and chewing up and spitting the rest out".
To me personally, this is the most magical place on earth and I am blessed to have had the opportunity to call this place home.
RE: How real is the rascism ? - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 01-07-2014
seventhreads -
My comment was not meant to condone what happened here in Hawaii in the 1800's. If you read carefully what I said, I did state that one person's great grandfather took the land here in Hawaii from someone else's great grandfather. If you read the history of the islands you will see that is part of the story, some land was transferred and granted to wealthy white businessmen by the U.S. government, some was purchased from the alii. There was also a time in the mid 1800's when many private Hawaiian landholders sold their property to the influx of white people arriving in the islands (see Shoal of Time by Gavan Daws).
I don't pretend to know why one person resents another person, racial or otherwise. I don't pretend to know how things would be in Hawaii if Hawaiians retained land ownership. I only pointed out a similar situation in Samoa. Hawaii might have been the same or different. There are a lot of possible outcomes that can take place over 120 years.
In my last paragraph I only attempted to say that things don't always turn out as you imagine they will. For instance, I had no idea that what I wrote would be misunderstood as it was, yet here we are. Some of that is no doubt my fault for not writing my thoughts as carefully as I should have. After rereading my comment I can see how "all Hawaiians would have a free house and yard" might be taken as flippant. It would have been better and closer to what I meant to say "Hawaiians would now have retained their land and had a place on which to build a home and plant a garden."
RE: How real is the rascism ? - seventhreads - 01-07-2014
well rob yes i suppose i am new "here", if by here you mean this virtual place where we argue with strangers...
funny though i never said i was black....neither did i give any "advise" to hawaiian people....i was simply pointing out a fact im sure they would mostly all agree with that hawaii and their life here was nicer before white people came, as it was in many of the other places white people ran this game on. i am not being racist against white people by saying this, it's just what happened.
"This individual finds it hilarious that a white person is discriminated against. You know because only a black person can actually feel discriminated against."
again, i never said i was black...but this does reveal some of your feelings towards black people, thanks for sharing. and yes i do find it pretty funny when they complain of racism specifically on hawaii. it's just ironic that a people would steal land from another people, oppress and discriminate against them, and then 120 years later be whining about stink eye. i mean 120 years in the big picture is NOTHING. it's like punching someone for no reason and then 5 minutes later wondering why they're mad at you. huge events like the takeover of hawaii have repercussions for centuries...
RE: How real is the rascism ? - Hawaii Bound - 01-07-2014
Obviously I misunderstood when you said "....as a person of color growing up on the mainland..."
RE: How real is the rascism ? - seventhreads - 01-07-2014
no you just never quite wrapped your head around the fact that "person of color" is not synonymous with black.
let me help you out.
all black people are people of color. not all people of color are black.
RE: How real is the rascism ? - Hawaii Bound - 01-07-2014
Nope, that's not it and this is the last time I will respond to you.
My assumption of what you said is based off of personal experience. I have numerous friends of various ethnicities. Only my black friends ever referred to themselves or other blacks as a color. ALL other people referred to themselves as either Spanish, Mexican, Portuguese, Egyptian, Indian, etc. Not one of them ever referred to a color. Just like I am an American NOT a white American.
I'm done with this. You have proven yourself to be a racist and now are trying to pawn it off since I called you out on it.
You seem to be a bitter person (aka racist) when it comes to white people. Why else would you, as someone who has supposedly experienced racism, find it hilarious when a white person experiences it?
May this be a prosperous New Year for you and hopefully and attitude change for you as well as you obviously need it.