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+--- Thread: Legality of Topfree for Women in Hawaii (/showthread.php?tid=13037)
RE: Legality of Topfree for Women in Hawaii - peteadams - 01-25-2014
Specific circumstances seem to matter a lot in Hawai'i. One is supposed to construe whether someone else may be affronted.
http://www.state.hi.us/jud/22457.htm
quote:
We hold that a conviction under Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS) § 707-734 (1993) for indecent exposure must be supported by proof that the defendant "intentionally," as defined in HRS § 702-206(1) (1993), exposed his or her genitals to another person under circumstances in which the other person was likely to be affronted. Under the stipulated facts of this case, the exposure by Defendant-Appellant Maiika K. Kalama (Defendant) of his genitals to a fellow nude sunbather was not "likely to cause affront," as required by HRS § 707-734. The district court of the first circuit (the court), however, convicted Defendant of violating HRS § 707-734 on the ground that other persons who could have been in the area would have been affronted by Defendant's conduct. We reverse Defendant's conviction because the court applied the wrong legal standard and because the evidence was insufficient to establish guilt under the legal standard that should have been applied.
RE: Legality of Topfree for Women in Hawaii - Midnight Rambler - 01-25-2014
Just to be clear - the law against indecent exposure applies specifically to genitals and not to breasts. If they wanted to include them they could have, since HRS 712-1210, defining terms for the section on obscenity, has this more broad definition:
quote:That's not to say that you wouldn't have the cops show up and tell you to cover up or even arrest you if you refuse. It might not hold up in court, but it could still be a pain.
"Nude" means unclothed or in attire, including but not limited to sheer or see-through attire, so as to expose to view any portion of the pubic hair, anus, cleft of the buttocks, genitals or any portion of the female breast below the top of the areola.
RE: Legality of Topfree for Women in Hawaii - Todd H - 01-25-2014
quote:
Originally posted by Midnight Rambler
Just to be clear - the law against indecent exposure applies specifically to genitals and not to breasts. If they wanted to include them they could have, since HRS 712-1210, defining terms for the section on obscenity, has this more broad definition:
quote:That's not to say that you wouldn't have the cops show up and tell you to cover up or even arrest you if you refuse. It might not hold up in court, but it could still be a pain.
"Nude" means unclothed or in attire, including but not limited to sheer or see-through attire, so as to expose to view any portion of the pubic hair, anus, cleft of the buttocks, genitals or any portion of the female breast below the top of the areola.
Hello, Rambler-
Thanks. Here is a few links to the lass on Oahu who is spreading the news about topfreedom rights in Hawaii:
http://vimeo.com/73130200
http://vimeo.com/73009325
Regards...
Todd
RE: Legality of Topfree for Women in Hawaii - Rob L - 01-25-2014
Getting a ticket is not the same as a ruling on legality, though it could certainly ruin your day and maybe your life if you get fired for it or something. But, if he is up for it, your friend might have grounds to challenge the ticket based on prior Hawai'i Supreme Court case law.
Aloha,
Rob L
RE: Legality of Topfree for Women in Hawaii - EightFingers - 01-27-2014
quote:
Originally posted by Todd H
As a mainlander who plans to visit the Big Island (Puna District) later this year, my wife and I are wondering if there would be any problems or hassles for her to enjoy topfreedom (of course, in places where males have the same right)? We understand that the State of Hawaii has recognized these rights, but wanted to ask the residents of Puna for comments, etc. Mahalo/Thanks!
Todd
I'm all for it [}
]
RE: Legality of Topfree for Women in Hawaii - rusty h - 01-27-2014
I respect your right to certain freedoms. ill be waiting to hear what happens. im not the type of person that comes to a place i don't live and try something as unusual as this adventure, but to each his own. just guessing....i think where you decide to try it will be the key to success. peace
RE: Legality of Topfree for Women in Hawaii - Guest - 02-05-2014
quote:
Originally posted by EightFingers
quote:
Originally posted by Todd H
As a mainlander who plans to visit the Big Island (Puna District) later this year, my wife and I are wondering if there would be any problems or hassles for her to enjoy topfreedom (of course, in places where males have the same right)? We understand that the State of Hawaii has recognized these rights, but wanted to ask the residents of Puna for comments, etc. Mahalo/Thanks!
Todd
No man boobs though.
I'm all for it [}
RE: Legality of Topfree for Women in Hawaii - OpenD - 02-05-2014
This isn't as well known as one might think, but it is absolutely legal for a woman to be topless in public in New York City.
And San Francisco. And Seattle. And Austin. Austin even has a fully legal nude beach inside city limits, and a lot of women go topless when swimming or sunbathing at Barton Creek, which is within walking distance of City Hall.
I think it's time for people to get over the prudery of the Hawaiian Missionaries here and move on.
RE: Legality of Topfree for Women in Hawaii - Todd H - 02-06-2014
Interesting, Open D. I had no idea about Seattle, and my wife and I happen to live about 25 miles from downtown. If you can respond to me "off forum" with your source of information, I would really aprreciate it!
So, your remark really piqued my curiosity and quest to learn more:
<it's time for people to get over the prudery of the Hawaiian Missionaries here and move on>
Before I ask the question to the forum, I'll state as a disclaimer that I'm 100% haole and have only visited Hawaii twice. I have absorbed some of the history and culture but, admittedly, not enough.
Question: Before the missionaries arrived in Hawaii, did the females go topfree? If "yes," was this pretty much the daily norm, or was it the exception (e.g. when bathing)?
I've never seen any photos, sketches, or artworks that would indicate that the Native Hawaiian women were traditionally topfree, so perhaps any vestiges of that attire were discouraged or destroyed. About the closest thing that I have personally seen are the coconut shell bikini tops, but I think that those were invented or exist only for the amusement of mainland tourists[
]Todd
RE: Legality of Topfree for Women in Hawaii - Carey - 02-06-2014
There are quite a few early etchings done prior to the missionary arrival... and the clothing depicted varies conciderably. Many kumu hula study these etchings and written accounts to recreate kahiko hula. (of course most performances are not always totally correct). UH-Hilo has an extensive library of resources in their Hawaiiana Collection.
Hawaiian dress & culture at the time of western contact was not unified, and would incorporate site specific resources of one area (it could even vary by ahupua`a, and there were very distinct differences between some islands).
That said, in places like the neighborhood I live in, the dress & culture is more formed from the background of my neighbors, many of whom are issei or nisei, and from a culture where modesty, even in ones' laundry, is much more the norm... that is why I would explain again to try to understand that this is a very multicultural place today, and to have respect for the actual areas you are in, if your goal is to promote and gain a worldview.
If you are just coming here to prove a point...well that is within your right, but then, are you doing it to respect the cultures that live here, or to promote your own idea?
Added: if your idea is to promote topfree....well wouldn't it be better to get the exposure at home???
a quick search has a whole wikipedia article on topfree, including this
"Former Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske had this to say to his staff about questions regarding nude participants in the 2008 Gay Pride Parade:
Washington's indecent exposure law makes it a misdemeanor to 'make an open and obscene exposure of his or her person or the person of another knowing that such conduct is likely to cause reasonable affront or alarm.' In other words, there must be lewd or obscene behavior for an officer to take action. In order for the police to make an arrest, we must have witnesses currently in the public place where the nudity is occurring [sic] who must make a complaint. These witnesses must be willing to appear in court. Also in order to prosecute, the burden is on the government to prove that the offender was knowingly aware that their conduct created alarm and offense of others.
—Former Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske"
So it would seem that you should be giving a greater exposure to Washington & Seattle, than to come here first (unless you only feel that this is for "other" places, not your home area????