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+--- Thread: Ford, Ruderman: More precincts need redo (/showthread.php?tid=14216)
RE: Ford, Ruderman: More precincts need redo - missydog1 - 08-14-2014
I can understand the confusion if not following the whole thread.
quote:"Their" referring to Mendo's comment about HiloPuna and myself in the post prior, and "boy" referencing Senator Schatz (which is disrespectful to the Senator).
Originally posted by David M
Keep in mind, the current situation favors their boy.
For the record, it was also a distortion of my meaning to imply that I am "for" the "current situation." The current situation is a mess, and I think bad choices were made in letting the election go forward. I do care about people's voting rights.
It's clearcut that those two precincts were denied their vote on Saturday. The second chance is not technically because they were unable to get out to vote; it's because their polling places were closed (because they were stuck and the polling places were not fit to be manned).
I was protesting against Ruderman and Ford's attempt to widen the scope to other voters in Puna who couldn't get in even though polls were open. There are other voters who were stuck due to fallen trees, flooding, road closure -- in upcountry Maui and along Hamakua that I know of, but no one is suggesting those areas get a second chance at the vote. It's a slippery slope to open up, and it could end up with an invalid election.
As for differentiating "act of god" from a situation like locally heavy rain and flooding that could happen here at any time -- I think "act of god" is a term of art that insurance companies came up with to name a class of event they can exclude from coverage.
If anyone thinks that God pointed at a certain part of the island and said let there be damage and chaos last Thursday, but has nothing to do with other tragic events that happen to individuals, well -- you're entitled to your beliefs but I don't share them.
Anyhow, whatever solutions are available are by law only the exigencies put in the HRS by legislators, and I think this event might show that those statutes need an overhaul in the future. The law can't be reverse engineered to fix this mucked up situation.
And it is also unfair to hundreds of thousands of other voters who voted blind, that a deciding minority should have access to the count going into a special election. Those voters already counted should have rights too, rights to have their votes on an equal standing with all the other voters in terms of knowledge. Those rights were disregarded by the chief of elections when he made the call to only close two precincts.
All the people in the two precincts who voted absentee and early walk-in are out of luck too. Their votes are set, just not yet announced. They don't get a do-over. The only people who are so privileged are the ones who put off voting even though a hurricane was coming. It's kind of ironic that the people who cared enough about ensuring their vote got in will have less say in the outcome than those who didn't. (But they still have rights, and I support those rights.)
RE: Ford, Ruderman: More precincts need redo - Mtviewdude - 08-14-2014
quote:
Originally posted by KathyH
I can understand the confusion if not following the whole thread.
quote:"Their" referring to Mendo's comment about HiloPuna and myself in the post prior, and "boy" referencing Senator Schatz (which is disrespectful to the Senator).
Originally posted by David M
Keep in mind, the current situation favors their boy.
For the record, it was also a distortion of my meaning to imply that I am "for" the "current situation." The current situation is a mess, and I think bad choices were made in letting the election go forward. I do care about people's voting rights.
It's clearcut that those two precincts were denied their vote on Saturday. The second chance is not technically because they were unable to get out to vote; it's because their polling places were closed (because they were stuck and the polling places were not fit to be manned).
I was protesting against Ruderman and Ford's attempt to widen the scope to other voters in Puna who couldn't get in even though polls were open. There are other voters who were stuck due to fallen trees, flooding, road closure -- in upcountry Maui and along Hamakua that I know of, but no one is suggesting those areas get a second chance at the vote. It's a slippery slope to open up, and it could end up with an invalid election.
As for differentiating "act of god" from a situation like locally heavy rain and flooding that could happen here at any time -- I think "act of god" is a term of art that insurance companies came up with to name a class of event they can exclude from coverage.
If anyone thinks that God pointed at a certain part of the island and said let there be damage and chaos last Thursday, but has nothing to do with other tragic events that happen to individuals, well -- you're entitled to your beliefs but I don't share them.
Anyhow, whatever solutions are available are by law only the exigencies put in the HRS by legislators, and I think this event might show that those statutes need an overhaul in the future. The law can't be reverse engineered to fix this mucked up situation.
And it is also unfair to hundreds of thousands of other voters who voted blind, that a deciding minority should have access to the count going into a special election. Those voters already counted should have rights too, rights to have their votes on an equal standing with all the other voters in terms of knowledge. Those rights were disregarded by the chief of elections when he made the call to only close two precincts.
All the people in the two precincts who voted absentee and early walk-in are out of luck too. Their votes are set, just not yet announced. They don't get a do-over. The only people who are so privileged are the ones who put off voting even though a hurricane was coming. It's kind of ironic that the people who cared enough about ensuring their vote got in will have less say in the outcome than those who didn't. (But they still have rights, and I support those rights.)
I really take offense to your "the only people who are so privileged are the ones who put off voting even though a hurricane was coming".
I am one of those, I like to go in, punch the ballot, go to lunch and make a day of it. I made the mistaken impression that they would postpone the election if there was sufficient damage to affect voter turnout, but oh well. I didn't ask for the results to be posted or know what they were in advance.
I do notice you don't seem to have the same attitude towards those who didn't plan even for the basics (food, water, ice, batteries, shelter) even though a hurricane was coming and everyone was warned days in advance.
After all, if they couldn't care about that their families well-being to put even a basic hurricane kit together that could last a week, why should the rest of community come to their rescue.
Next time a hurricane bears down during election time, I will make sure I get my priorities straight. Apparently not voting early makes me "privileged and lazy" and my right to vote gets taken away, while not having the basic supplies to last a week gets me those supplies and sympathies. Thanks for the wake up call.
I am done with my rant.
RE: Ford, Ruderman: More precincts need redo - HiloPuna - 08-14-2014
The Judge has spoken, lets see what the aftermath brings.
RE: Ford, Ruderman: More precincts need redo - snorkle - 08-14-2014
Kathy,
Thank you for your lengthy, well researched, and extremely detailed defense of whatever it is you're defending yourself from.
RE: Ford, Ruderman: More precincts need redo - kalakoa - 08-15-2014
It's a slippery slope to open up, and it could end up with an invalid election.
I believe this is the desired effect.
RE: Ford, Ruderman: More precincts need redo - pahoated - 08-15-2014
Seems like the vote count from Puna isn't big enough to cause any major change. Shatz is 1600 ahead of Hanabusa. The county council votes are already decided. The only election that can be affected by this vote is Hanohano and Bronson-Creilly for house representative. The county council lineup isn't too bad, some chance it is shaping up so there are more rational people to override the kooks. It seems like many of the voters are agreeing to local politics for local issues, some encouraging movement in that direction.
"We come in peace!" - First thing said by missionaries and extraterrestrials
RE: Ford, Ruderman: More precincts need redo - missydog1 - 08-15-2014
Hi Mtviewdude, I am sorry that my words offended you. I assure you that I don't think anything so negative about people as the way you took it.
In fact, like you, I enjoy voting at my local polling place where my good friends man the helm and I see people I know, because it is fun to see them. It wasn't any fun voting early in Hilo. It was a chore, impersonal, and it was a pain taking the time when I was trying to gather together hurricane supplies.
Csgray had a topic here before the storm urging people to vote early, and I resisted the idea because, like you, I like to do my voting day the usual way, and I thought they were going to postpone if the storm hit hard.
Well, Carol and opihikao encouraged me to get it done, so I did. I could easily have been in the position of getting shut out if not for them, and obviously there are many who don't read Punaweb and didn't have that nudge.
When the early voting hours got extended, I did see the push from the governor and elections to go get it taken care of, and I'm sure some others heeded the call to go get that vote in and be certain.
But please understand that I was not calling anyone lazy for not voting early. I was more referring to the people who vote absentee and early as voters who are very focused on getting that vote in--unlike myself in fact. If anyone is a slacker here it would be me. I've rushed in at the very last moment in years past.
I tend to let things go down to the wire. Perhaps that is why I have an acceptance that sometimes when one does that it doesn't work out because the unexpected gets in the way.
I truly am not the judgmental person you read me as, nor am I smug for voting early. I only did it because others encouraged me, so it would be wrong of me to have an attitude. When I said it was ironic I was thinking of voters like Carol and opihikao who put it at the top of their list.
Last thing we need right now is people throwing out insults at each other, and that was not my intent.
Hope all goes well today with the Special Election and lots of people vote.
RE: Ford, Ruderman: More precincts need redo - Guest - 08-18-2014
I hate to interrupt the flow because I can see that the conversation has taken off in a different direction but I just had to respond to Mendo's comment at the end of page one.
Mendo quote;
"KathyH & Hilopuna - Do you think you can find a heart somewhere? And until then, please stay out of Puna if this is your attitude toward us."
Mendo, do you think you could find a brain somewhere? So easy to threaten people behind a user name. To tell KathyH and Hilopuna to "stay out of Puna" unless they agree with you, sounds a lot like, what Bob Pettricci said to me on the phone. When I told Bob P., several of my neighbors and I, were coming to the next Puna Pono Alliance meeting, to discuss the Geothermal Resources amendment in SB 2274,the so called sustainable living research bill, he told me that he would "call the police if we showed up" at the meeting." He told me "to back off my opposition to the bill" and that I "did not understand the bigger picture." This is the kind of irrationally and hysterical behavior that needs to be addressed in local Puna politics.
As a 20+ year lower puna resident I applaud KathyH and Hilopuna's mana'o!
Now back to the topic at hand.
RE: Ford, Ruderman: More precincts need redo - kalakoa - 08-18-2014
He told me ... that I "did not understand the bigger picture."
Understatement of the decade. Well put.
RE: Ford, Ruderman: More precincts need redo - Guest - 08-18-2014
kalakoa quote:
"He told me ... that I "did not understand the bigger picture."
Understatement of the decade. Well put."
I told you, kalakoa, stop talking to Graham Ellis. He's too subjective.