+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Albizia Tree Containment (/showthread.php?tid=14314)
RE: Albizia Tree Containment - Hunt Stoddard - 08-29-2014
I don't know. Personally I think eradication is entirely feasible. After all, once the big ones are gone, we're basically talking about eradicating sprouting weeds. Considering that pot was eradicated all across the mainland as a weed, doing the same thing on an island seems quite possible. The key is to make albizia a public enemy. Stage one is to get rid of the big buggers that are threatening the grid. There I see the county playing a key role. Next, make it public policy that anyone can uproot any albizia along any roadway that he or she ever sees. Form volunteer clearing parties, like trail making parties, except that they're albizia search and destroy weekend parties.
You'll know that we've won the day you can uproot an albizia on someone else's property without permission, and they'll thank you and give you a beer in return.
RE: Albizia Tree Containment - pahoated - 08-30-2014
quote:
Originally posted by steve1
What is really needed is a combination of insects, fungi, mycoplasmas and other small critters that attack only a single species or a limited group of species within a genus or family we wouldn't mind harming here in Hawaii.
The real solution is to send a team of scientists/ researchers to the native habitat of the invasive species and find what natural parasites/ predators have co-evolved with the invasive species and to import and release them here in order to try to balance the population.
No, just NO. This idea has been tried for over 100 years and lead to nothing but disaster after disaster. In fact, it would be very difficult to find an example where this lunkhead idea has worked without unexpected consequences larger than the original problem.
It comes from this witless namby-pamby perception that "if it's natural, it must be good". Poison hemlock is natural, infected ticks are natural, even tape worms are natural. Are these "good"?
What is "natural" on one continent doesn't mean it's "natural" on another continent. Look at how this approach has ravaged Australia. Look up the efforts with poisonous cane toads and European rabbits. In Hawaii, it has been one invasive species introduction after another that are destroying entire ecosystems. The mongoose was introduced to combat the large rat population resulting from large scale sugar cane fields. Problem is mongoose likes to eat bird eggs a lot more than fight with a rat.
This idea of "transplant biology" is the worst idea for combating invasives and the least effective. Almost every single effort of introducing non-native lifeforms has completely failed. Chemicals work and they tend to disperse or decompose over time. Reproducing lifeforms do not. Put this introducing non-native species at the bottom of the options list.
"We come in peace!" - First thing said by missionaries and extraterrestrials
RE: Albizia Tree Containment - kalakoa - 08-30-2014
with the almost non existent income the local county gets its a miracle they can even fix one road a year
The problem is not "funding", it's a combination of "overhead" and "priorities". Check out the roads in Kona or Waimea.
Note also that the "paltry" 4.166% is not a "sales tax", it's an "excise tax" which has been applied multiple times along the way to the point of sale -- the equivalent "sales tax" would be somewhere in the 10-20% range depending how you calculate it.
RE: Albizia Tree Containment - steve1 - 08-30-2014
Pot was not eradicated on the mainland as a weed and hemp still grows in ditches and remote places particularly in the mid-west. Soil is nature's seed bank and many invasive plant seeds can remain viable for over a century.
Pahoated I said scientists and researchers NOT cane sugar profiteers. Big difference is well thought out science not just quick fix reflex reaction. Then again you seem to be wrong and reactionary most of the time.
Protosse, what is your deal, and do you live here or are you just another absentee landlord? The 4.166% I refer to is that the State will make money off the sale of each and every container of Milestone but do virtually nothing in return. Big Island is about to become a test case in excessive use of a highly toxic broadleaf tree herbicide and you think there will be no other consequences? Vietnamese children are still being born with birth defects from their great-grandparents' exposure to Agent Orange. We need better solutions that just poisoning the environment for short-term success.
RE: Albizia Tree Containment - leilanidude - 08-30-2014
@steve1 - your approach of introducing additional species is why we have the darned albizia to begin with!
RE: Albizia Tree Containment - kalakoa - 08-30-2014
the State will make money off the sale of each and every container of Milestone but do virtually nothing in return
Completely different argument: the Department of Ag should have a large enough budget to address the problems we actually have.
Instead they get 0.4%.
One of the things the Dept of Ag does is give grant money to help farmers differentiate their products in the global marketplace. All we need now is a marketing plan and a grant proposal. "The finest Albizia comes from the Big Island of Hawaii. Order yours today."
RE: Albizia Tree Containment - Midnight Rambler - 08-30-2014
quote:You are incredibly uninformed about the history of biocontrol in Hawaii, let alone elsewhere in the world. A few poorly-executed ones, mostly from decades ago before any adequate regulations were in place (and in some cases done against the recommendations of actual scientists), are repeatedly trumpeted by know-nothings like Syd Singer. But in any given year, multiple biocontrol releases are usually made that you never hear about, and many of them are successful. Some of the more important ones:
Originally posted by pahoated
No, just NO. This idea has been tried for over 100 years and lead to nothing but disaster after disaster. In fact, it would be very difficult to find an example where this lunkhead idea has worked without unexpected consequences larger than the original problem.... Almost every single effort of introducing non-native lifeforms has completely failed.
Sugarcane planthopper - would have destroyed the Hawaiian sugar industry in its infancy without biocontrol. Pahala plantation's production went from 18,888 tons in 1903, to 1,620 tons in 1905, to 826 tons in 1906. Several parasites introduced in 1907 brought it under control, and several more in 1916 and 1920 almost completely eliminated it as a pest of concern.
Cottony cushion scale - almost destroyed the California citrus industry and would have done the same for citrus here, as well as our monkeypod trees which were so heavily infested that they were on the verge of being cut down. The Vedelia beetle was introduced in both places and brought the scale completely under control.
Wiliwili gall wasp parasite - without the quick discovery and release of this, our wiliwili would already be extinct.
Prickly pear caterpillar - cactus completely covered a huge area of pastures in the early 1900's, making them useless until this moth was brought in and controlled it.
Pamakani fruit fly - this one took some time to have a serious effect because it attacks the fruit instead of the mature plants, but the amount of Maui pamakani has declined a lot in the last 15 years.
various lantana-attacking insects - again these took some time to have an effect, and lantana is still fairly abundant, but together they've caused a significant decline.
None of these have had any bad side effects. And this is not even looking at the much less glamorous ones, like the five coccinellid beetles released to control spiraling whitefly, or the parasitic moths that control pineapple souring beetles and cabbage leaf miners and let you grow food in your backyard without pesticides.
RE: Albizia Tree Containment - MarkP - 08-30-2014
At the risk of inflaming an argument by picking sides, I'm with Midnight Rambler. I know to stop listening when someone trots out the old mongoose vs rat analogy while examples from the last 30 years are conspicuously absent from their rant. If one were to invoke the level of scientific understanding that existed in the 1800s there would be no reason to stop with the ill considered efforts of a bunch of good old boy planters. Civil war surgeons didn't know enough to sterilize their instruments and probably killed as many as they saved. According to the logic typically employed by anti-bio-control zealots it must therefor be assumed that modern day surgeons are no better than their counterparts from the 17th century.
RE: Albizia Tree Containment - punalvr - 08-30-2014
I heard that six ounces of Crossbow, mixed with a gallon of diesel fuel, just sprayed around the trunk of the Albezia tree, would kill it... I have never done it, but this is just posted for those that want the easy way out... Just FYI.
punalvr
RE: Albizia Tree Containment - leilanidude - 08-30-2014
quote:
Originally posted by punalvr
I heard that six ounces of Crossbow, mixed with a gallon of diesel fuel, just sprayed around the trunk of the Albezia tree, would kill it... I have never done it, but this is just posted for those that want the easy way out... Just FYI.
punalvr
Why would you want to do that?
Three CC's of Milestone, alone, will kill one large albizia in a couple of weeks, and cost a lot less per tree, without the effects of spraying diesel! One ounce of Milestone will kill 10 large albizia. A quart would be 320 trees. You would suggest that spraying 320 gallons of diesel into the ground is a good idea? Imagine 1000 people all following your brilliant idea? [B)]