+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Albizia assassins (/showthread.php?tid=16918)
RE: Albizia assassins - MattKarma - 02-19-2016
I *FN* *LOVE* trees, esp. big ones.
...but yeh if there was one or two, in immediate danger of damaging expensive property, I would take action.
...and thanks, but I really have little need for mary jane.
RE: Albizia assassins - MarkP - 02-19-2016
They don't just kill power lines and people. They kill the native forest. Maybe that is OK with some people but if you are going to be even vaguely pro-Hawaii you have to give lip service to preserving the native forest against invasives like albizia.
RE: Albizia assassins - MattKarma - 02-19-2016
quote:
Originally posted by MarkP
They don't just kill power lines and people. They kill the native forest. Maybe that is OK with some people but if you are going to be even vaguely pro-Hawaii you have to give lip service to preserving the native forest against invasives like albizia.
Such hypocrisy. Albizia=Haole then?
RE: Albizia assassins - PrismaticMenehune - 02-19-2016
> They don't just kill power lines and people. They kill the native forest. Maybe that is OK with some people but if you are going to be even vaguely pro-Hawaii you have to give lip service to preserving the native forest against invasives like albizia.
And we're sure that poisoning all those trees is suddenly going to result in the regeneration of native forest around Lava Tree? I'm guessing more albizia will resprout and we'll just continually have to load the area with herbicide. Or it will just fill with guava. Wouldn't it make more sense to focus on portions of Puna that are still rather pristine if the goal is maintaining a mythic untouched Hawaiian ecosystem somewhere? Much of lower Puna has long since been overrun and without replanting efforts, that's not going to change. Fighting against nature is hard.
Here's a paper regarding the potential value of hybrid forests:
http://lerf.eco.br/img/publicacoes/2012_2911%20Novel%20forests%20maintain%20ecosystem%20processes%20after%20the%20decline%20of%20native%20tree%20species.pdf
RE: Albizia assassins - shockwave rider - 02-19-2016
You have not responded to the post about the seeding ability of albizia. One tree can seed many, many acres around it, the really tall ones create habitats for LFA that allow them to blow onto neighboring properties. The albizia were a thoroughly misguided a import in the 30s, when no one really understood the vlaue of Hawaii's native forests and ecosystems. Eliminating the albizia will not magically bring back the ruined native forests, but it will slow the loss of what is left of the intact native ecosystems. There was a push to get rid of the albizia along the highway near lava tree years ago, a bunch of tree huggers got it stopped and then those trees became a huge problem during Iselle, and had another decade or two to spread their seed far and wide.
RE: Albizia assassins - PrismaticMenehune - 02-20-2016
> You have not responded to the post about the seeding ability of albizia. One tree can seed many, many acres around it, the really tall ones create habitats for LFA that allow them to blow onto neighboring properties.
If you read through the posts I've made, you'll see me trying to understand why the continued growth and spread of albizia in areas where they're heavily established is a bad thing, especially when the countermeasure involves the use of herbicide. Is it that hard to uproot young albizia when they're only a few feet tall and growing on your land or along the side of a road?
As for the LFA, with all due respect, that sounds like an attempt to scare people into thinking the two are surely correlated. Why not start taking out all the fruit and coffee trees in Puna while you're at it? (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/22/paradise-lost-hawaiisalieninvasion.html) If you read the linked post from the BIISC, you might notice the mention of an absence of LFA in that area.
RE: Albizia assassins - kalakoa - 02-20-2016
As for the LFA, with all due respect, that sounds like an attempt to scare people into thinking the two are surely correlated.
Albizia, LFA, coffee borer beetle, small hive beetle, rhino beetle, dengue: all of these infestations are symptomatic of resource mismanagement by State and County. In this way they are definitely related; all of them should have been dealt with long ago.
why the continued growth and spread of albizia in areas where they're heavily established is a bad thing
Albizia are not stable, they fall over in storms, causing property damage, closing roads, leaving people without power for weeks, etc. I fail to understand how this is "ok".
RE: Albizia assassins - leilanidude - 02-20-2016
If you read through the posts I've made, you'll see me trying to understand why the continued growth and spread of albizia in areas where they're heavily established is a bad thing, especially when the countermeasure involves the use of herbicide. Is it that hard to uproot young albizia when they're only a few feet tall and growing on your land or along the side of a road?
-------------
Couple problems with your statement.
A very small amount of herbicide is injected into the tree. No one should be heavily spraying herbicide to kill albizia.
Uprooting them doesn't always kill them. They grow sideways when you do that which makes the new trees even more dangerous! Look at all of the chain-sawed trees outside of Lava Tree park and note how many of those trees are now alive, growing new shoots out of the horizontal trunks!
RE: Albizia assassins - kalakoa - 02-20-2016
A very small amount of herbicide
How small, you ask? 3 or 4 mL. Small enough that it's applied with an eyedropper. (At $130/qt, spraying would be too expensive anyway.)
growing new shoots out of the horizontal trunks!
Just like the waiwi -- any little piece will grow back.
RE: Albizia assassins - shockwave rider - 02-20-2016
quote:
Originally posted by PrismaticMenehune
> You have not responded to the post about the seeding ability of albizia. One tree can seed many, many acres around it, the really tall ones create habitats for LFA that allow them to blow onto neighboring properties.
If you read through the posts I've made, you'll see me trying to understand why the continued growth and spread of albizia in areas where they're heavily established is a bad thing, especially when the countermeasure involves the use of herbicide. Is it that hard to uproot young albizia when they're only a few feet tall and growing on your land or along the side of a road?
As for the LFA, with all due respect, that sounds like an attempt to scare people into thinking the two are surely correlated. Why not start taking out all the fruit and coffee trees in Puna while you're at it? (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/22/paradise-lost-hawaiisalieninvasion.html) If you read the linked post from the BIISC, you might notice the mention of an absence of LFA in that area.
As someone who lives down wind of several acres of mature albizia on lots with off island owners, my property is literally showered with thousands of LFA from those albizia when there is even the lightest breeze. We can sweep up a 5 gallon bucket's worth in just a few days from my carport. LFA are a tree dwelling ant and albizia are the perfect habitat for them.
You keep resorting to these senseless all or nothing arguments, like wanting to get rid of one none native invasive that causes a lot of problems means getting rid of all useful agricultural trees. I speak from personal experience, LFA and albizia are found together, the sheer height of albizia enables them to spread LFA on the wind much farther than shorter trees.