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+--- Thread: DLNR cat killing apparently to ramp up on Kauai (/showthread.php?tid=18610)
RE: DLNR cat killing apparently to ramp up on Kauai - punaticbychoice - 07-28-2017
kalakoa @ 18:13:49, 7/27/2017-
Yes, agreed.
RE: DLNR cat killing apparently to ramp up on Kauai - MarkD - 07-28-2017
Interesting reading, MarkP--If you could throw in a few more paragraph breaks....easier to process....
RE: DLNR cat killing apparently to ramp up on Kauai - terracore - 07-28-2017
"something has been limiting the population"
There are a number of diseases, parasites, and now LFA that serve this purpose. Theoretically, this island's ecosystem should have been fairly well decimated by feral rabbits, but there are parasites here that keeps their numbers in check. The same logic can be applied to other mammals. We recently have seen a cat around that is blind or nearly completely blind from what looks like LFA stings. She is the only cat that has shown up that hasn't stalked our chicks, probably because she can't. And we have noticed less cats around in general, but that could be because of 2+ years of our rodent control measures. Having livestock, we have to monitor parasite loads closely. East Hawaii has no winters or droughts that break the parasite life cycle that much of the rest of the world enjoys. Cats are rugged creatures for sure, but they aren't immune to everything.
RE: DLNR cat killing apparently to ramp up on Kauai - Eric1600 - 07-28-2017
Culling animals is not a new concept. However for cats it never works. I've seen many towns with zero animal rights who have actually used the military to sweep large sections and kill all the cats. Within 3 years the problem is back.
TNR isn't the problem. Feeding them, which isn't ideal, isn't the problem. It is the people that is the problem. Like HS said:
If people want to solve the feral cat problem, they need to put money where their mouths are. Publicly fund a program, give them real dollars, real offices, computers, vets, trucks and personnel dedicated to the problem. As is, there are ragtag groups of underfunded volunteers (basically), working in the dark, literally.
RE: DLNR cat killing apparently to ramp up on Kauai - MarkP - 07-28-2017
Feeding them is the problem. Feeding them is exactly the problem. Cats have been at large un-sterilized in Hawaii for two centuries. According to the math being pushed by Alley Cat Allies and the like they should have broken the billion mark after only 12 years. They didn't. The increases we are seeing today are due to increased feeding. They reached the limit determined by available food within a handful of years of arriving and have been bumping up against that limit ever since. We raise the limit when we dump a sack of kibble on the ground. We make more cat when we dump that kibble on the ground.
What do you mean "works"? Of course the problem is back. It never left. It lives next door with the people who own a cat. It never will leave until owning cats is illegal and such law is enforced. I'm not holding my breath.
Also this was on last night's news.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/35991049/state-harbors-want-crackdown-on-feral-cats-and-people-who-feed-them
ETA: Culling works for me and many other hands-on types as long as there isn't someone actually breeding them next door. A couple of years back I would see cats on my property and hear them fighting at night. More than once they jumped up and hit the bottom of my container while fighting. I trapped about 6. Most of them went to the Humane Society. A couple were so feral that I saw no point in burdening the system with them. Anyway I just saw a cat skulking around for the first time in a couple of years. If you have a grasp of reality you recognize that two years relatively cat free is pretty good results.
RE: DLNR cat killing apparently to ramp up on Kauai - Eric1600 - 07-29-2017
Insult me all you want, but feeding them is not the problem. The only thing feeding them does is prevents them from establishing territorial boundaries so humans see them grouped together and in the open hoping humans will feed them more. Without feeding they find food just fine on their own. I know this first hand because most countries that have feral cat problems, the people don't feed them anything at all.
Culling doesn't work as your own example shows because 2 years is nothing and doesn't solve the problem:
* People release unsterilized cats and kittens by dumping them because they don't give a ****
* People allow their unsterilized pets to roam freely outside
* Rapid reproduction rates are designed by nature to propagate in areas where there is no competition (culling occurred) and/or abundant food
* Some people will always feed them. It's been shown numerous times that they will go to great lengths and personal risk to feed starving animals. You can't legislate this behavior out of people, it's been proven in many cities already.
RE: DLNR cat killing apparently to ramp up on Kauai - terracore - 07-29-2017
When I lived in Alaska some of the villages would have "dog killing day", well-publicized in advance. People would have to secure their animals on their property because any dog found roaming at large was shot and killed. At the time I thought it was inhumane and cruel, but looking back, they didn't want to pollute the wild wolves with feral dog DNA, they didn't want feral dogs getting rabies and spreading it to people, and they didn't want any of the other associated problems. It was careless people who caused the feral dog problem and law enforcement solved it the only way they knew how.
RE: DLNR cat killing apparently to ramp up on Kauai - Eric1600 - 07-29-2017
Terracore, your story is as old as dirt. Culling is nothing new, and it's also not very effective unless you don't care about the means to and end. I've seen this method employed annually in many many places.
However there is a much better way. Communities that have strict sterilization programs, public education and enforcement have proven to be much more humane and permanent fixes. There are cities and states the actually have decided to import unwanted animals for adoption because their programs are so successful and all their shelters are no-kill.
DLNR's solution is typical of most governments -- react instead of prevent.
RE: DLNR cat killing apparently to ramp up on Kauai - terracore - 07-29-2017
"There are cities and states the actually have decided to import unwanted animals for adoption because their programs are so successful and all their shelters are no-kill."
This is true for dogs. Not so much for cats. Most of the dogs adopted by the Oregon Humane Society are imported from other states, including Hawaii. Unvaccinated (feral) dogs in these locations have an extremely high mortality rate, but feral cats do much better. Oregon experimented with coyote culling around urban areas and when they did the feral cat population exploded. In the end they determined that leaving the coyotes alone as much as possible was the preferred solution.
RE: DLNR cat killing apparently to ramp up on Kauai - justthefacts - 07-29-2017
years back the area I live in seemed to be a drop off place for unwanted cats. I set traps and with help of spay/neuter organizations I was able to get over 75 feral cats fixed, none of the cats were mine, they were just dumped in the area and it was a growing problem for the area, they were all released after being fixed. Presently we no longer have a feral cat problem in the area and we have little to no rats.But we did not go out of our way to feed them, if they ate food it was because they stole it from our outside 3 farm cats all I can say is thank you to the spay clinics.