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+--- Thread: Gun Control Proposal for Hawaii (/showthread.php?tid=19232)
RE: Gun Control Proposal for Hawaii - leilanidude - 02-25-2018
quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
Hawaii could start by making all gun owners liable for whatever happens with their gun, even if it's stolen.
Maybe people would actually lock them up properly then and we don't have to keep reading about gun thefts in the paper.
Imagine that the responsible gun owner has a 1,000 pound gun safe, it is bolted to concrete floor and the guns inside are locked via trigger locks and no ammunition is stored in the house. Somehow the safe itself gets stolen or broken into. The guns with their trigger locks being cutoff, are then used in a crime with ammunition stolen or acquired elsewhere. Is it the gun owners fault? Did the gun owner not take all reasonable precautions?
You have a nice set of kitchen knives. They are in a pretty knife holder on your kitchen counter. Your house is broken into and the knives stolen. Later, one of the knives are used to stab someone. Is it your fault or the knife manufacturers' fault?
RE: Gun Control Proposal for Hawaii - PaulW - 02-25-2018
I am not under a legal obligation to keep my knives locked up, probably because they can't be used to kill 50 people in 5 seconds.
But I agree, a gun owner should only be held responsible if (s)he is negligent in how they store their guns. Which is often the case.
Whatever that gun lover used in Florida to murder 17 children in 4 minutes, that everyone is calling an "assault rifle", that's what I would call an assault rifle. Sorry if I don't get the terminology correct, please forgive me.
RE: Gun Control Proposal for Hawaii - Rob Tucker - 02-25-2018
leilanidude,
First of all insurance is intended to protect YOU the gun owner. Secondly in the examples you suggest what most often occurs is liability is assessed in court proportionally... which means mitigating circumstances are applied. Liability issues are essentially rational, not subjective. But in the event a gun owner was found liable the insurance company would be there to defend him/her.
Under current law I would think that a stolen knife would currently fall under an existing homeowner's liability policy. Homeowner's insurance is not required by law but is required by basically all mortgage companies. If you pay off your mortgage you are no longer required to maintain a Homeowner's Liability Policy... but most people consider it good business to maintain insurance to protect their assets.
RE: Gun Control Proposal for Hawaii - PaulW - 02-25-2018
It could be that assault rifles are already banned in Hawaii, I don't know.
RE: Gun Control Proposal for Hawaii - leilanidude - 02-25-2018
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
... My request is for the state to fund a study
of the effects of utilizing insurance as a mechanism for risk assessment of each and every gun owner.... which would include me.
Rob, in general, I do agree with this concept. I would like to believe that many gun owners already have a general liability policy that protects them. I bet you have one?
I have a $2 million policy on top of my homeowners insurance. For me it doen't really cost that much but insurance companies rate one partly based upon their occupation and their credit score. The typical hunter here probably couldn't afford such a policy. (I want to say mine is about $400 a year, a $300k policy was $200?)
RE: Gun Control Proposal for Hawaii - Rob Tucker - 02-25-2018
It would be worth knowing if our Homeowner's Policies cover theft and/or misuse of a owned firearm.
RE: Gun Control Proposal for Hawaii - Kapoho Joe - 02-25-2018
quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
Maybe Hawaii could lead the way by banning all assault rifles (automatic, semi-automatic etc etc, whatever the current jargon is).
Maybe you could learn whatever the current jargon is and then come back with your suggestion (whatever that may be)?
RE: Gun Control Proposal for Hawaii - Kapoho Joe - 02-25-2018
I'm not sure getting an insurance check would make the parents in Florida any happier. Unfortunately, I don't see this idea addressing the undiagnosed mentally ill who 'snap' and then kill people.
RE: Gun Control Proposal for Hawaii - leilanidude - 02-25-2018
Whatever that gun lover used in Florida to murder 17 children in 4 minutes, that everyone is calling an "assault rifle", that's what I would call an assault rifle. Sorry if I don't get the terminology correct, please forgive me.
-------------
You could do the same with a pistol. Possibly easier, in the right circumstances. You may find it hard to believe, but I am not a big fan of pistols and concealed carry.
I have no problem with strict background checks, BTW. The mental illness issue seems to be the common cause in many of these shootings. We no longer lock up people with severe mental illness due to the ACLU getting involved years ago. We
allow them to be out on the streets. Many of the homeless seem to be part of this crowd.
RE: Gun Control Proposal for Hawaii - Rob Tucker - 02-25-2018
It is my expectation that any insurance agent for any company would want to know a customer's history of arrests, medical/mental health issues, restraining orders, etc.
This is precisely the free market moment which would inhibit an angry or misaligned young person from acquiring a high capacity firearm from a gun store. The agent might well be saying: "Sure you can have an AR-15 young man, but the premium will be $50k per year, up front".