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+--- Thread: Hawaii among the least-innovative states (/showthread.php?tid=20754)
RE: Hawaii among the least-innovative states - TomK - 03-18-2019
Unfortunately, there are so many crazies around these days, on both sides of the climate change and environmental crises, that the real science gets lost, both around the world but especially in Hawaii. This is the place where people build landing zones for alien space ships yet argue against building a purely scientific telescope with no environmental or cultural consequences. It's where people argue against renewable geothermal energy, worry about climate change (IMO, correctly so) yet support oil burning to produce electricity or hybrid cars that actually cause more environmental damage than normal cars. There's an opportunity to build a small launch site for satellites to monitor the planet and improve life for everyone but then they falsely complain that it would mean plutonium being dumped here or it would be used by the military.
All we can ask for is our kids to be taught the fundamentals, including STEM, and be encouraged to then use that education to better themselves and the rest of the community. And, hopefully, if they get to that stage, to realize and understand that there are many out there who do not want this to happen because it's easier to hold onto their silly conspiracy theories and/or politic agenda. We need kids to get past that stage. It's going to be hard to do that in Hawaii, and especially on this island, because there are so many parents who don't want that to happen; let the kids learn woodwork instead.
RE: Hawaii among the least-innovative states - TomK - 03-18-2019
alohanaia,
"Since the telescopes have been here for decades, you have to admit they haven't had the effect you're shilling for. There are always openings for anyone half skilled, but under RCUH's 'management' salaries are half what they are for the same skill on the mainland."
On another thread you posted a bunch of misinformation that was pointed out which you never responded to. Now, you post nonsense again.
Most of the staff employed by the observatories on Mauna Kea are not employed by RCUH. However, salaries have become much more even among the observatories. There are one or two hold-outs, which everyone in the astronomy community know about. The wages paid by the MK observatories however, tend to be much higher than equivalent observatories around the world.
As for paying for the same skill on the mainland, yes, that's probably true, if you work for a private corporation. The qualifications people have to get senior jobs at the observatories would likely mean they would get paid two or three times higher working in the oil industry as an example. What you forget is many people want to work for the observatories because of the job satisfaction they get from working in such a field. They want to help making incredible discoveries. IF that's not something you want to do or doesn't interest you, a job at an observatory is probably not for you.
RE: Hawaii among the least-innovative states - Guest - 03-18-2019
Tom Kerr, UKIRT Astronomer, what exactly is your beef about local kids learning woodworking ?
RE: Hawaii among the least-innovative states - TomK - 03-18-2019
Re-read my post. No beef at all about learning woodwork.
RE: Hawaii among the least-innovative states - Guest - 03-18-2019
Way too haughty a lead up. Dial back tom, i say this in peace.
You need more time with kids. STEM is not for them all, hence my encouragement as per the trades.
RE: Hawaii among the least-innovative states - TomK - 03-18-2019
I know STEM is not for everyone, but your post about "woodshop" didn't take into any consideration what bright kids want to do - you said that's what they should do. All you've done is try to shoot the bright kids down. You should be ashamed for not wanting Hawaii's kids to follow their ambitions. Perhaps you're jealous? Think about it. Goodnight.
RE: Hawaii among the least-innovative states - Guest - 03-18-2019
Dear Tom, i realize; once and for all that you do not have a full command of American english and its subtleties.! As such, you take many things out of context. Then as a defense, you create a false argument and go on the attack.
You were not always like this. Think about it.
tompaul, glinda and hotpie, u are projecing and putting ur own misplaced anger and excuses of our youth on an anonymous web poster as if.
You have no idea my position in the system or my family involvement, yet u rush judgement.
i will share that i am seeing my hard work and dedication paying off big time... for ALL levels Tomas.
Take a lesson from the Covington H.S. case. You should not make assumptions and leap to judgement.
RE: Hawaii among the least-innovative states - snorkle - 03-19-2019
Hawaii was rated the "happiest" State in a recent poll. Those who aren't happy have found refuge in punaweb. My guitar gently weeps.
RE: Hawaii among the least-innovative states - geochem - 03-19-2019
RWR - I love woodworking, wish I had more time for it - and a more refined skill at it than I do. But, in TomK's defense, how would you feel if that activity were suddenly contrary to Hawaii's "cultural beliefs"? if use of "sacred" Koa or Milo wood were suddenly only allowed to be done only by kanaka maoli? Being told that wood shops that were not approved by OHA, and paid them an extortionate "cultural royalty", would be shut down?
I have plenty of my own reasons to be thoroughly disgusted with Hawaii's political class constantly pandering to obstructionists just for their own political expediency rather than showing some real leadership in technology and a host of other arenas. They are sacrificing their constituents' future, and the future of their children, solely in the interest of their political advancement. So I understand TomK's reaction and attitude fully. Gets more than a little tiresome responding to neo-utopian, fact-free rants after a while...
RE: Hawaii among the least-innovative states - Guest - 03-19-2019
Neo-utopian is another poster Geochem, certainly not me.
I mentioned woodshop bc its one of the few trade oriented classes available. An then suggested the trades for kids to get they start. God knows its better than some other entry level jobs.
I, at no point brought in woodworking until Tom made is snide ( post unintentional ) comment.
I don't have time to defend a post utopean scenario wood crisis. I use albizia, paulownia and balsa.
Plenty pallets laying around for punters