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+--- Thread: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor (/showthread.php?tid=2683)
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - Liz - 09-20-2008
"You can't expect regulation to force new values..."
I completely agree (no matter what the topic).
Just trying to figure out why some people think they get to decide what's best for everyone else, especially in this regard.
aloha, Liz
"The best things in life aren't things."
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - Guest - 09-20-2008
quote:And can you name a particular store like that?
Originally posted by JWFITZ
If it matters that much to you, don't shop any place that supplies plastic bags.
I get plastic bags from vendors at farmers market
]-------
Just a piece of my thinking
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - Kelena - 09-20-2008
Nah, Jay....when I was a kid we have place near my home called "tin can beach" because every inch of it was covered with soft drink cans. Then California --one of the first states if not the first state-- enacted the deposit taxy thing that is now universal. That completely changed people's behavior. The seat belt law changed people's behavior and fewer people died. The put-your-kid-in-a-kidsafe seat law changed people's behavior. I am all for libertarianism, when it is practiced in your own house and not inflicted on others. I am also all for libertinism. You can practice that at my place.
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - james weatherford - 09-20-2008
quote:
Originally posted by hikatz
Come up with a solution that will work as well as plastic bags for the majority of the population on this island
We use reusable bags. Some are cotton. Some recycled plastic (mostly milk jugs). One hemp. All get washed in the laundry without hassle. We have done this for more than 12 years, inlcuding while working and raising three children and now in an 'empty nest'. It is no more hassle than wearing a shirt in a public place!
Get over it.
Over ride the the veto!
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - JWFITZ - 09-20-2008
It's time we grow up and don't tell the same kinds of silly evasions we did in elementary school.
There's likely 2 orders of magnitude more plastic in the CONTENTS of that hemp bag as there is in the bag we got for free from the store. This isn't hyperbole. Measure it out, gram by gram.
Consumption, of course, is the key. While plastic is unquestionably disastrous for the environment, and as a sailor I've seen it first hand, it's not near as dangerous as dilettante legislation from people with money and too much time on their hands. THIS is what is going to kill the planet, at this point. It's people selling sugar pills when open-heart surgery is called for.
Damon, of course there is no store at the moment. If you go to your local "whole foods organic" or whatever store, you'll see plastic bags in abundance, and the big crime being many of which contain phoo-phoo compounds that have no business being sold in the FIRST place. IF, on the other hand, there were a mass of people who understood the damage of plastics in general, against the environment, against health, et al., voting by your dollars would make a difference, and that store would arrise in a moment. Hell, I'll do it! All I need is a hundred customers. . .
If you want to do something for the environment, the best thing you can do is NOTHING at all. Everything else makes waste and a carbon footprint. . .goofy laws that require trouble to get around, and another silly situation that your grand kids will hate you for.
If you believe in a better future for mankind, make your mantra be "Live THAT new life, THAT we ALL should." If you do, people will follow. Don't sit on your butt and tell others how to live. You will make worse than no progress with that approach: you will only create resentment, stonewalling, and STILL get no progress.
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - JWFITZ - 09-20-2008
Hey Glen,
Missed the subtle humor. LOL.
Can I bring the girls?
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - Mitzi M - 09-20-2008
Well, for a while I lived in Mexico and there I learned to bring a bag to the market. While it's true that pretty much everything else there was in plastic bags (from roasted chicken to soda pop) the people there just took for granted that you bring your own bag when you shop.
Especially if you're leaving the tourist trail, it's also very handy to have your own toilet paper along. Amazing how fast I learned that one!
Anyway, I still have the woven plastic fiber bag I bought and used there all those years ago and I still use it now. No mold - no washing needed - just gotta remember to put it back in the car.
I'm not perfect though...I space it out sometimes and wind up with the plastic ones too. It's so automatic.
I have a friend who really thinks about this stuff a lot and she inspires me. She has been "bag free" for quite a while. She also has this cool glass and tupperware container for getting take out and leftovers from restaurants instead of the styrofoam stuff they give you. She tries to buy stuff without so much packaging or at least get's stuff in glass, cardboard or aluminum - which is recyclable. I do this too as much as possible.
One day I asked her about trash bags. I use the grocery ones for my trash and felt pretty good about reusing them until I saw some photos of what was in the bellies of poor little birds that died from eating tons of teeny pieces of plastic on Midway.
My pal just seriously separates her trash - compost in the bucket, recyclables where they go, which leaves paper and whatever other plastic there is. She even goes as far as washing food wrappers off that she's going to throw away. Then she puts it in one of those metal cans with the removeable rubber interior bucket. She dumps that into a rubbermaid container and takes it to the transfer station on a not so windy day, then rinses out the bucket & container.
I'm not there yet - but I'm getting better! I use feed bags for trash now. My friend told me that this is her way of being conscious about her impact on the Earth. I have to admit, it's a lot more attention than I've ever paid to what I leave behind. But dakine is right - there IS nothing more important than how we leave the planet - better or worse for our having been here.
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - JWFITZ - 09-20-2008
"Advocacy" should have been what our parents and grandparents did.
For us, "Adaption" will be the catchword.
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - james weatherford - 09-20-2008
One plastic bag. One trip through the checkout.
One cotton/recycled-shredded-plastic-jug/hemp bag. Years and years through the check out, the library, the farmers' market, the airport business, and on and on.
Plastic bags are bad. Not necessary. The costs are greater than the benefits.
Over ride the veto!
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - JWFITZ - 09-20-2008
Again, if you care, don't buy plastic. Don't buy plastic and put it in your cotton bag. If you're not this committed to THAT, well, don't get into making policy, because hypocrisy is annoying to the rest of us.
Hey, I AGREE, that plastic is a big big problem. I simply don't approve of half baked half measures that achieve no measurable effect for the ecology at the cost of business practice, inconvenience, and bad blood among the general population.
So what to do? If you've time to fiddle with politics, go for a total ban on plastic packaging, or a tax on such covering the real cost of disposal. If you're into personal action, well, don't buy stuff. Especially don't buy plastic.
Don't tell me that this doesn't have a measurable effect. By avoiding purchases--first, in general--and second, those with a lot of packaging, you'll save the equivalent to hundreds of bags.
"Oh, but No! That requires a change in MY lifestyle! I still want to buy whatever I want, I just think bags are bad!"
Well, then there you go.
Avoid sugar pills at all cost.