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+--- Thread: Voter Turnout lowest since statehood (/showthread.php?tid=2696)
RE: Voter Turnout lowest since statehood - missydog1 - 09-21-2008
oink, a short partial answer is that Portuguese immigrants arrived here as contract laborers for the plantations, like the Japanese, Chinese, and Filipinos. They had their own camps. They came from the Azores and Madeira, not from mainland Portugal.
Portuguese sailors may have discovered Hawai'i before Cook; they were all over. But that's not why there was a wave of immigration.
The people who worked on plantations and lived in the camps were workers, subjugated. Haoles were the masters. The people who came here with nothing, indentured, and still made something of themselves, have a common bond, even if they make jokes about each other (and they do!)
PS. If you haven't noticed, in Hawai'i you take a joke that would be about a "Polack" and substitute Pordagee, and that's how the joke culture treats them. That's why the Pordagee bet on da duck that the clueless haole brought to the cock fight.
However, that is just joke culture. In reality, there are many prominent successful proud people of Portuguese descent here in Hawai'i.
RE: Voter Turnout lowest since statehood - oink - 09-21-2008
The point was that haole seems to be interchangable with caucasian in most cases, but Portuguese aren't referred to as haoles. However, I doubt you would find a Portagee that doesn't consider himself to be Caucasian. Then how about a Spaniard? If it's that most Portuguese have been here for several generations, what about a recent Portuguese emigrant? Oh, you mean haole only referrs to those of Anglo, French or Northern European stock?
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Voter Turnout lowest since statehood - missydog1 - 09-21-2008
I understood your point, oink, and if you look at my reply again I answered with a historical economic class context to show that these things supercede our "racial" classifications. (Race is an idea that's becoming discredited anyway.)
Haole doesn't exactly mean everyone who would be classified as Caucasian. It's more about belonging to a certain group that dominated and exploited other groups. Portuguese immigrants of the late 19th century early 20th century being among those who worked in the fields along side other non-haoles.
It's really simple to understand if you look at the groups of people, how they got here, how they lived, how they co-mingled. It's only complicated if you try to over-think it with too much definition.
Portuguese people are in an interesting group though. They have a very strong identity and they don't fit easily into a general box.
RE: Voter Turnout lowest since statehood - missydog1 - 09-21-2008
oh, and when I was searching around seeing if I could find a good reference for you, I ran across a Hawaii Threads topic that asks the same question. It's worth reading.
http://www.hawaiithreads.com/archive/index.php/t-6152.html
Several of the people are saying what I said, that it's about history and class position and the plantation background.
As with most of these discussions, there are various points of view.
RE: Voter Turnout lowest since statehood - Guest - 09-21-2008
Low voter turn out is a sign of complacent attitudes brought on by contentment.
RE: Voter Turnout lowest since statehood - missydog1 - 09-22-2008
or
Low voter turnout is
a sign that Hawai'i voters feel that whoever they elect they same people are going to run things for their own benefit, because it's always been like that.
or
another reason not to vote is not having a strong feeling that one candidate is better
or
they believe the candidate they want to win has the votes already.
I haven't been hearing anyone voice contentment lately.
RE: Voter Turnout lowest since statehood - emorata - 09-22-2008
i think punatic is a nice non-ethnic identity that everyone feels favorable to and shows you want to belong no matter your ethnic identity.
RE: Voter Turnout lowest since statehood - oink - 09-22-2008
quote:I'm actually pretty much up on Hawaiian history. I'm cognisant of the view you expressed. And yes I just messing with you. Your point above may have been valid at one time, but no more. Is a rich Japanese businessman from Tokoyo establishing a new business in Kona considered a Haole? Is my Portuguese co-worker who came from Portugal as an 18 year old going to be considered a Haole? (He looks like a typical Portagee) Race is an idea that should have become discredited, but is alive and well in this circumstance. If my children were born in Hawaii (none of my living children were) they should not be Haole, or Kaamahina. They should be local residents, of whatever ancestory. I don't think anyone is ever referred to as "a local of Haole ancestory". Haole is a racial term and an ethenic term. It may well have referred to Anglos, French and Northern Europeans from the start, but if it is used as a method of denying inclusiveness, then it's time for it to go.
Originall posted by KathyH
I understood your point, oink, and if you look at my reply again I answered with a historical economic class context to show that these things supercede our "racial" classifications. (Race is an idea that's becoming discredited anyway.)
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Voter Turnout lowest since statehood - macuu222 - 09-22-2008
Can we please get back on topic?
RE: Voter Turnout lowest since statehood - missydog1 - 09-22-2008
hi oink, I'm not sure that we're disagreeing about anything then. I don't like these ideas either and I don't seek to perpetuate them. I see them around me. I think people moving here should be aware of how things have been.
If people want change, then they need to understand the status quo and how it got that way.
I'm sure there would be local terms for both the examples you used (and not haole).
quote:
If my children were born in Hawaii (none of my living children were) they should not be Haole, or Kaamahina.
SHOULD is the operative word. Some will agree with your should, and others won't. My personal belief is irrelevant. I won't be going to school with them. (if they existed and were more than a for sake of argument) If I had school age kids, I would teach them to see everyone as the same, underneath, but then I was raised that way.
I actually had to learn, later in life, that plenty of people who consider themselves minorities prefer to embrace their ethnic identity with pride than to think of us al all one big human race. There's a lot of that feeling in Hawai'i and I don't see it changing real fast.
I've never spoken to a "local" (non-Caucasian) who called himself or herself a Punatic. There must be some, but as far as I know that term was coined by the counter-culture settlers and continues to be embraced by people who are comfortable with being seen as a bit eccentric.
Ask a local where they're from and I would expect they'll tell me the name of their subdivision, town, or other immediate community. NOT "Puna" and not "I'm a Punatic."
The reason I play devil's advocate here is so many prospective residents seem to think Punaweb types reflect the general population. No way! You want to hear the voices of the more average (but still internet-savvy) people, read the posted comments that follow the news articles in the Tribune Herald. They're pretty candid and most don't sound anything like what you read on Punaweb.