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+--- Thread: Single Wall vs Double Wall Construction (/showthread.php?tid=2849)
RE: Single Wall vs Double Wall Construction - David M - 12-19-2005
Ajit
My thoughts on single vs double wall construction.
WARNING - the following rants are solely MHO and not directed to anyone specifically, nor based on anything other than my observations:
No matter how you cut it, the house building industry is all about money. Double wall uses way more material, different materials, different suppliers, therefore it costs more - share the wealth. That may seem contradictory when you consider the single wall used a far better grade of material, but I suspect the pure profit potential is far greater in the poorer material. Also far less waste in single wall.
Single wall requires a higher level of craftsmanship, basically there is no way to hide the screwups, therefore you have to higher craftsmen and not just laborers. Framers=Finish=Trim. This also applies to subs like electricians and plumbers. I've been in a number of single walled homes, that the surface mounted wiring blends in so well, it is very difficult to see - that takes planning and skill - a lot easier to hide everything behind sheetrock.
The more it costs a contractor to build, the more profit, based on his % markup.
I recently got to observe a fairly minor remodel of a single wall structure. To me it was darn inspiring to see the level of attention to detail.
I can also understand why you may have been told single wall doesn't meet code given the current trend to build with maximum simspson-strong ties with a bit of wood to fill in the gaps. As for code... na, better leave that rant for another time.
PS. Back 25+ years ago, I owned a single wall house on Oahu. My neighbor helped me expand it, basically by pushing one wall out 8 feet the total length of the building. We dismantled that wall, then rebuilt it using the original material without loosing a piece.
End of rant
David
Ninole Resident
RE: Single Wall vs Double Wall Construction - adias - 12-20-2005
Dave thanks for sharing your rantings, fully agree with most of your points. Just out of curiosity, in the house you expanded without loosing any pieces, how were the pieces put together or bound together, nails, bolts etc?
Unfortunately, since stick building (double wall) construction dominates, the cost of material and labor for single wall may actually be higher, don’t have enough knowledge to evaluate this properly.
Ajit
Edited by - adias on 12/21/2005 01:52:52
RE: Single Wall vs Double Wall Construction - David M - 12-21-2005
Ajit
Boards were nailed. If I recall correctly 6 nails per board, 2 at top, 2 at bottom, 2 at mid band. It was pretty amazing how simple. I think the boards were approx 6 inch width.
David
Ninole Resident
RE: Single Wall vs Double Wall Construction - Rose C - 12-21-2005
If you are interested in Japanese Country Homes, try this website: http://www.rl-intl.com
The company recently changed from father to son. It looks like a good fit for the Hawaiian climate. Most of the model homes shown were owner built from precision cut lumber provided by the company.
Rose C
RE: Single Wall vs Double Wall Construction - adias - 12-21-2005
Looks like some of the original Hawaiian Plantation Homes from early part of the last century are in a Museum on Honolulu at Hawaii's Plantation Village. Their web site is still under construction.
Note that these were built as "cheap housing" for plantation labor at that time.
http://www.hawaiiplantationvillage.org/index.php?customernumber=996518901419645&pr=Tours_Directions
Are most of the structures driving around Hilo or Pahoa, single wall type buildings?
Ajit
PS Thanks for the link Rose..
Edited by - adias on 12/21/2005 17:14:43
RE: Single Wall vs Double Wall Construction - leilaniguy - 12-21-2005
Aloha Ajit, There is quite a mix of methods and style of buildings in both towns, most of the neighborhoods of Waiakea houselots, Puueo, Wainaku, Ainako, the old mansions on Halai hill and many downtown buildings in Hilo are singlwall. There are newer ones scattered throughout town. Nearly all the old houses in the sugar camps are singlewall. In Pahoa, the largest singlewall structure is Luquin's Mexican restaurant, in an old hotel. Several other stores on the main street and many of the homes in the village are also. Granted, some of the older strucures look pretty rough, but they are very old and many are not well maintained.
RE: Single Wall vs Double Wall Construction - adias - 12-21-2005
Aloha LeilaniGuy,
I reread you description of how these structures are put together, it’s starting to make sense as I read various books.
Would you mind elaborating on the roof and floor framing of these structures as well? Is it same as stick framing? Also, what exactly is a belly board, I did Google it but it’s not very clear.
Ajit
RE: Single Wall vs Double Wall Construction - leilaniguy - 12-21-2005
Sure, my 32'x24'house from the ground up; piers on cinder, tofu block on top, termite tin, 4x4 post braced all 4 directions up to 4x8 beams every 8', conventional floor framing on top; 2x6 every 16", 3/4 t&g plywood subfloor, hardwood floor. Outside walls are normally framed with 4x4 spaced every 8', mine vary due to window and interior wall placement. The belly board: This is a 2x6 or 8 placed horizontally along all the walls at about 36" - the "belly" of the wall. This stiffens the wall, and is the right height for windows and railings. The wall posts support 4x6 beams that run the perimiter of the house and on top all interior walls. the walls are 1x6 cedar nailed to the exterior floor joists, the belly board, and the top plate. The roof is 4x8 beams with hurricane clips, spaced every 4' running up to a 4x10 ridge beam. The ceilng is 1x6 t&g redwood. this is overlayed with building paper. 2x3 purlins are nailed down over and roof tin on that. A loft sits above about half the house, the rest is open. The living room has 18' ceilings. There is a 4x12 beam running 8'high across the room to support the complex roof design- sort of a cross between Minka and Polynesian styles. There is a 2nd story ohana over the adjoining carport, singlewall also, but more conventional architecture. At the back of the property is another small singlewall strucure we call the teahouse. The houses were owner built in the early 80's by Reiner Hesselink, professor of history, author and quite a Japanophile.
Edited by - leilaniguy on 12/21/2005 19:28:31
RE: Single Wall vs Double Wall Construction - adias - 06-11-2007
I remember having a serious discussion on single frame /double frame with LeilaniGuy and others. Didn’t realize at the time, the ancestor of the Hawaii sugar cane plantation, Minka, is actually a Timber Frame. I guess the difference is that the single wall structures build in Hawaii didn’t use joinery, which makes it a post and beam?
Took a one week workshop in Timber Framing in Maine. It was pretty amazing, in one week a bunch of newbies build a four frame structure 24x36 and got it up...Not a single nail was used..
Edited by - adias on 06/12/2007 02:08:51
RE: Single Wall vs Double Wall Construction - morganlady - 06-12-2007
The new-home builders of today (I was house-hunting in both Jan and May) are coming from the mainland - up north in Canada or Minn. There's no concept of single wall in these mens' experience.
Between the concrete slab construction and the double wall homes, I think a rational and calm buyer must comb through the 9 ft walls, granite counters and completely ripped homesites to discover the few gems that are out there. (I just bought a single wall, redwood, post & pier 3 BR home, landscaped and on paved road - 30 yr old. THe only termites found were in the window frames or added on deck)
How many earthquakes has Hawaii had in 30 yrs?