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+--- Thread: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition (/showthread.php?tid=15831)
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 05-08-2015
Southern Observatory’s Very Large Telescope at Paranal, Chile.
Testing the telescope's laser:
http://gizmodo.com/shooting-a-laser-at-a-planet-but-not-to-blow-it-up-1703138176
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 05-08-2015
HOTPE, to answer your questions, yes, but on Facebook, which I don't have (my kids and their friends all show me photos and videos), and my statements are mine alone, what discussions I'm involved in, and what I see. I didn't "see" the machines working on the site, as I was at the visitor's center (no machines there).
I was more interested in the Governor's entourage and their body language, as they waited for other cars to go get him at the top (van broke down once he reached the site). The protestors will surely continue to video and take pictures of everything. So far, they release them very strategically which has had some effect. It is part of the "social media" campaign the activists of old did not have the luxury of. This generation is very astute, and campaigning with "Kapu Aloha".
Trying diligently to balance thoughts, and discuss cohesively how to move forward (even within my own ohana!). Have a great evening, HOTPE.
This is a very good explanation of the situation we are dealing with today:
(*Snipped - More at link)
The following passage from the late Hawaii State Supreme Court Chief Justice William S. Richardson is excerpted from “The Life of the Law is Perpetuated in Righteousness: The Jurisprudence of William S. Richardson,” published in 2010 in the University of Hawaii Law Review by Williamson B.C. Chang.
It may not be readily apparent how Hawaiians in 1770 practicing their religion will have almost lost their most sacred mountain, Mauna Kea, in 2015. The system by which the Hawaiian understood the world and ordered their daily lives, was interpreted by outsiders to their detriment interpreted the system by which the Hawaiian understood the world and ordered their daily lives. In time, this outside interpretation gained authority as a series of extraordinary political, social and economic events in Hawai’i placed outsiders in a position to make conclusive assumptions about the Hawaiian.
Simply thinking and acting as a Hawaiian accelerated the downfall. An inability to reject the West, as the West becomes a larger and larger part of one’s life, renders the individual vulnerable. Not understanding how one’s own actions are interpreted, one faces a choice between a loyalty to one’s own culture at an unknown cost or meaningless imitation of Western forms at the cost of alienation from one’s own self.
...The collision of values over the future of the most sacred Mountain in the Pacific reveals how law, politics and the insatiable need of Westerners for more and more knowledge, reconstructed the Hawaiian’s own beliefs in their view of creation and the cosmos to the benefit of Westerners and, incredibly, to the detriment of Hawaiians themselves.
http://www.civilbeat.com/connections/westerners-feel-at-home-hawaiians-feel-lost/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=Hawaii
JMO.
ETA: Dakine, it's clear as day: This is not about TMT. At. All. Some get it, some will never. The article above is pretty clear. Mahalo for your continued respectful opinion, although we are not always in agreement, we show respect. Mahalo for that. Some could learn from the "old ways'. Just sayin'. Have a good evening. JMO.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 05-08-2015
Thanks opihkao,
I was hoping to get a more definitive answer to my questions, because, I haven't been able to find the answers elsewhere.
Much of what gets repeated is like the old game of telephone, someone whispers a phrase into the ear of the person sitting next to them, then that person tries to repeat it, until it goes all around the circle. At the end, the phrase may be nothing like what the first person said. The name of the official, or some photos of the work done during the moratorium should both be available somewhere. The summit is open to the public so I would think someone would want to show the equipment up there and any work they've conducted.
If you find out anything more specific, I'd appreciate if you'd let me know.
Thanks
Added: I searched google images, "Mauna Kea TMT" and I could only find one image of the construction at the TMT site:
http://www.welivemana.com/articles/after-arrests-protests-continue-mauna-kea
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - PaulW - 05-08-2015
If it's not about the telescope then why stop the telescope? Of all the things to protest about!!
If you want publicity, go shut down Waikiki.
I am quickly losing all respect for the Hawaii Independence movement.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Frank - 05-08-2015
quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
If it's not about the telescope then why stop the telescope? Of all the things to protest about!!
If you want publicity, go shut down Waikiki.
I am quickly losing all respect for the Hawaii Independence movement.
go shut down Waikiki...or Bishop Estate... or DHHL
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Wao nahele kane - 05-08-2015
The telescope was selected because they think the telescope is of interest to the general international population (it isn't). In their minds, it's a way to present their cause before the world. Bottom line is the fact that very few even know about the telescope and those that do are probably local to the State of Hawaii or technically minded people who are interested in such advancements. In a nut shell, the people they are reaching are the very people who will not see any sort of rational points by the kingdom movement as it stands against advancing human understanding and therefore what little attention they capture will result in more negative opinion about the kingdom movement than positive opinion. In short, the kingdom movement is successfully disfranchising potential supporters by aliening the average viewers ideologies. FLOP
The more they cause havoc in this matter, the more damage they do to their cause.
This is why I said, they need to hire a Public Relations firm.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Aaron S - 05-08-2015
I wrote this commentary after spending several weeks collecting my thoughts and writing this 600 + word commentary, which was published in Honolulu Civil Beat, among other news outlets.
http://www.civilbeat.com/connections/revoking-the-tmt-permits-would-be-a-huge-mistake/
"I’ve followed the Thirty Meter Telescope public vetting process over the past seven years; the unprecedented public protests against this project caused me to write this commentary.
The public had equal opportunity to give comments about this telescope project. It underwent an extended contested case hearing process before the Board of Land and Natural Resources granted the conservation district use permit in 2013. In addition, Gov. Linda Lingle accepted the Final Environmental Impact Statement in 2010. There was a 60-day window to contest the FEIS after acceptance. No one stepped forward to do so during that window."
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 05-08-2015
quote:HOTPE, I heard the TMT Manager (he said he was the Manager), say what I have posted. He also stated they were working for "a few days" during the hiatus. He looked very embarrassed, frankly. Especially after claiming to be a "tourist", changing his clothes, and getting into a company vehicle to "go to work"...lol.
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
Thanks opihkao,
I was hoping to get a more definitive answer to my questions, because, I haven't been able to find the answers elsewhere.
Much of what gets repeated is like the old game of telephone, someone whispers a phrase into the ear of the person sitting next to them, then that person tries to repeat it, until it goes all around the circle. At the end, the phrase may be nothing like what the first person said. The name of the official, or some photos of the work done during the moratorium should both be available somewhere. The summit is open to the public so I would think someone would want to show the equipment up there and any work they've conducted.
If you find out anything more specific, I'd appreciate if you'd let me know.
Thanks
Added: I searched google images, "Mauna Kea TMT" and I could only find one image of the construction at the TMT site:
http://www.welivemana.com/articles/after-arrests-protests-continue-mauna-kea
Sure wish Mr. Tom was at liberty to tell us why he was upset with TMT a bit ago. Again, I just share what I know first hand. Been in some very heated discussions recently (with both sides), and do not feel comfortable sharing it here on PW. Nothing would be gained nor resolved, just more banter (nicer word than what really goes on here).
The minutia doesn't phase me (and there's a lot I won't bother sharing), it's the overall problem this could cause for our entire State/Illegal State/potential Kingdom/Nation, whatever the hell we are these days.
PaulW & Frank, not Waikiki! Add OHA, Pohakuloa, Haleakala, Mauna Loa, Hualalai (oh wait, multi-million dollar homes already there), Kalaupapa, Hana, the Pali Lookout, Iao Valley, Haena, Kalalau Valley, Waimea Canyon, and for God's sake, can we please have Lana'i back?
OK, pau now.
JMO.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - PunaMauka2 - 05-08-2015
hapa gotta give back property to their better half in the Kingdom or what? which half cancels out the other half as far as genetic memory and primal cognitive function goes. i'm so confused, am i Mauna Kea? i go occupy myself.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 05-08-2015
He also stated they were working for "a few days" during the hiatus.
I googled TMT manager, and came up with at least three, project manager, business manager, and community affairs manager.
I also checked the governor's moratorium statement, and it specifically says it was a construction moratorium, not a work moratorium. Any manager going up to the job site most likely was not doing any actual construction, so certainly he should have been allowed through. Perhaps he even tried to explain this to a protestor, and then resorted to a change of clothes. There is nothing in the moratorium statement that said all aspects of work on the TMT would come to a halt.