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+--- Thread: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access (/showthread.php?tid=16163)
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - leilanidude - 07-29-2015
I am still waiting for reparations for the original native Hawaiians (not the last wave of polynesians that killed off the original native hawaiians and asummed the mantle) and the reparations to the other island alii for Kamehameha's illegal overthrow.
--------
We will be waiting a while for that, won't we? [xx(]
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - PunaMauka2 - 07-29-2015
dakine claims: "...the fact that there is a race of people here that think differently than they do..."
Good luck legally getting anywhere with that piece of racist thinking long since tossed into the trash by the courts. ...let alone getting anywhere in a serious 21st century conversation. The sun has set on your hopelessly antiquated mindset. Might as well accept it and save yourself the frustration of obsessively looking through the racial lense.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - kimo wires - 07-29-2015
Pog Your comment is right on the mark. Very observant.
Legal government authority isn't recognized unless it serves the cause. Laughable...
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - Aaron S - 07-29-2015
quote:
Originally posted by dakine
Aaron, having lived in Kailua Kona, which in our lifetime has been given entirely to the ways of the first world, US economy/culture etc., surely has blinded you to the real Hawaii. I left there in the late 70s when I built my house in Waipio Valley, and thankfully have been neighbors to, worked with, and a part of an extended ohana of Hawaiians ever since. And I can tell you from my experience, my long lifetime of associations, you are way wrong in this regard.
You can quote me on this. I will spend every waking moment of my life fighting against the restoration of the Hawaiian Kingdom - if it reached that point. It would be huge mistake on several levels and would benefit everyone that lives here. I'd rather be US citizen and have the rights afforded me instead of being a citizen of a kingdom that will likely restrict your rights.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - PunaMauka2 - 07-29-2015
You need not be concerned, Aaron. dakine can vent his kngdom hot air all he likes on the internet.
Before even engaging in a ludicrous debate, can anyone describe a legal avenue whereby a U.S. state can revert to a kingdom.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - opihikao - 07-29-2015
quote:Welcome back, rainyjim! Between this post, and the other "dead bodies" post on another thread, I sure hope you don't have to take another little break. Please relax, as I enjoy reading your posts, when they are comprehendible, not insulting.
Originally posted by rainyjim
Why do any of you bother to reply to Dakine?
Its the rhetorical equivalent of giving crack to an addict.
As far as Dakine's posts, and why anyone "bothers", is there are many pearls in his/her statements. (Y'all really like the term "pearls", yeah? The "shells" of the oysters are also good for chickens, when ground. Chicken feed, as it were...[
]) Dakine's post above is quite accurate, as most of his posts are, perhaps quite blatant in the message, however, reflects an opinion held by many. This one (in it's entirety):
Posted - 07/29/2015 : 17:56:37
"TMT is the flashpoint, the problem which is much bigger and older and pretty much set in it's way for lifetimes is the illegal overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii in 1893"
Additionally, pog is 99% always "spot on". Mahalo, pog. Recognition is what it's all about, at this point.
leilanidude, lol. Yes, we'll be waiting for a while; agreed.
Oh, AaronS, aren't you special! Born and raised, etc. Lucky, lucky, you! (...and many others. BTW, "sacred ground" you know...[
] You "know" right?) Not going to get into the Kingdom/Nation (within a nation), vs. US (illegal) overthrow, reparation argument, but do maintain that TMT is a victim of the "movement", as Mauna Kea/Mauna a Wakea provides an extremely large "platform".
The consensus of those in my small circle, is this is not about the almighty dollar, however, it is the only "reparation" the USofA will afford, combined with other "rights", via "tribal status" (e kala mai, another discussion). This is about our land (all encompassing, ALL of us). Some of us encourage management of our own "Crown lands" and resources, or at the very least, be consulted and involved in the process. OHA and DHHL have been miserable failures since inception. That needs to change.
I maintain, this is not all about TMT. We are facing a movement that may supersede Kaho'olawe.
Now, when are all these rules and regulations, old and new, be enforced? When will both sides come to some resolution? Will the courts proceed both State level and Federal level, and perhaps, on an international level, towards resolution?
Hopefully, soon.
“Ua mau ke ea o ka aina i ka pono”
“The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness.”
(*Note: almost literal translation - Hawaiian language cannot be literally translated to English word for word.)
Go ahead, those of you who enjoy picking apart each and every word, statement to fit the intended response, sometimes with a "zinger" attached. So be it. This is....
JMO, as usual.
P.S. Have a lovely evening, all. There is light on the horizon, with or without telescope. Oh, and Blue Moon on Friday! [
]ETA: typo.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - punaticbychoice - 07-29-2015
PM2:
In answer to your question, I see no mechanism for a State as a unit of the United States to leave the United States. As you are probably aware, 11 States tried that between 1861 and 1865. It was quite messy. And
effectively because of that, secession is not a legal option. I do know however, that the political pot is being stirred here by some very interesting political and financial elements. TMT and Hawaiian Independence are covers or symptoms
for other things.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - opihikao - 07-29-2015
PM2: Never happen. Never.
Reference current DOI, etc., meetings and proposed conditions for "nation" building, under US law. In essence, "tribal status"; (caveat) as "Hawaiians" (kanaka maoli). (*No cute links, sorry. [
])That's where this is going, despite the perceived valid argument of "show me the treaty", etc. Annexation? Did it happen or not? USA will NEVER admit (sans Clinton apology, Akaka Bill which was gutted, etc.), nor grant a "Reinstated Kingdom".
Now, on the international level, it's a different story, but still will NEVER happen. Some of us know the ramifications in "bucking the (USA) system", and try to maintain the basics of our culture within those confines.
Even Mother says, "We cannot turn back the hands of time. We can only move forward. However we do that as Hawaiians, we must maintain dignity and grace." E'O! (So thankful I can call upon her wisdom at 86 years old. Bless her and all of our Kupuna. Sorry, O/T.)
Now, when is DLNR/BLNR/Ige, et al, going to enforce these "emergency rules"? Clock is ticking, construction crews want to get to work, TMT investors must be huddled at the table to make some tough decisions.
May Akua (or whatever "God" these people in decision making positions worship or pray to) guide us towards resolution.
JMO.
ETA: punaticbychoice, agreed. 100%
Aloha ahiahi, gypsy. Trust all is well. "Jojo" needs to be careful. His na'au is pure; however, he's young and full of vinegar, as it were. "Kapu aloha" is their stance, and needs to be maintained to be effective. Just saying. Sam Keliihoomalu is indeed holding Uncle Robert's place in the RHK. He is also a very good man. Ige doesn't know WTH to do, and Kenoi is a "lame duck" at this point. Sorry, JMO.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - Guest - 07-29-2015
I don't understand all the animosity aimed or directed towards dakine. I always enjoy reading dakines posts, besides always being well written, they usually contain local secrets and plenty of island knowledge as well. Mahalo dakine, some appreciate your efforts, views, and opinions.
So we have had another JOJO sighting, this time atop maunakea instead of the recycling center here in puna. JoJo is the Hawaiian who was asking Officer Wheller for his badge number for the human rights violation paperwork. How many levels of seniority are within the dlnr dept ranks anyway, wheller looks to be the superior dlnr officer over the likes of the guys serving the second or third notices? Every warning or notice to the protectors has come from a different face it seems, probably on purpose. Good to see one side of the standoff is waiting by the phone hoping to resolve this now government situation, right on Sam!. Wish governor Ige and our mayor Kenoi would be easier to contact for the protectors concerns, questions, and complaints.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-29-2015
Nope. I am saying that the overthrow was not whole embraced by all of the US...Blout Report(1893)... Morgan Report (1894)... Native Hawaiian Study Commission(1983)... Apology Resolution (1993)... (2014) by the Interior Department.
the promise of some sort of resolution has been kept alive.
I think the reports you mentioned can best be compared to the Republicans promises to repeal Obamacare. They return to their districts, offer to vote a few dozen more times for the repeal of the health care law, but at the end of the day it's the law of the land, and it's been upheld by the Supreme Court and they can't overturn it.
The resolutions you note are similar. Yes, they might be taken as promises by some of the Hawaiian people, but they do not supersede the fact that Hawaii became a territory and then a state. The people issuing the reports are at best offering an idea or an opinion, with no ability to implement their suggestions. None of the reports you noted were ever able to change the status of Hawaii as a territory or state. Unless that happens, Hawaii will remain a state, just like Obamacare will remain law.