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+--- Thread: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July (/showthread.php?tid=21045)
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RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - ironyak - 07-20-2019
I would agree that I have not seen a more professional poll done. However, there is clearly some sample bias when the pool of applicants consists of "registered Hawaii voters [who] vote regularly in state elections", which is obviously not representative for many of those involved (who often have Hawaiian Kingdom IDs and License Plates and often not state IDs or voting registrations). I'm not saying that makes the poll invalid only that in this case there is an easily identifiable population that have a small likelihood of being included in the poll sample but a high likelihood of being involved with the TMT protests.
And of course there is the whole anecdotal evidence of the polling predictions for the 2016 presidential elections (which were wrong for similar reasons of a "hidden" population not represented by the polling sample). IMO it's unclear what that number really is and no clear way to properly measure it.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - reni - 07-20-2019
HOPTE POSTS
"if you compare the number of homesteads assigned and homes built by Native Hawaiians through DHHL, as compared with building permits issued through the CofH (which few would hold up as a model of efficiency), which agency provides more people with shelter?"
what a bizarre question....... this is what I read in your post.... Who do you want as your daddy? They both neglect you but one neglects a little less than the other one would.
and who else besides DHHL? How about an entity that actually functions for the good of the Hawaiian population they supposedly represent and not some State political shill ?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - EightFingers - 07-20-2019
If Hawaii does become an independent country, how long do you think it’ll be before some other country decides they’d like to take it over? It’s location has major military significance in the Pacific. Wouldn’t that make Hawaii a target for a takeover? Or not?
Puna: Our roosters crow first
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-20-2019
the polling predictions for the 2016 presidential elections (which were wrong for similar reasons of a "hidden" population
While those polls were off, they were not off by that much. Hillary did win the popular vote as predicted, but Trump had slightly higher margins than polling indicated in several critical states, which then amplified his victory in the Electoral College. I watched the various polls throughout the campaign which FiveThirtyEight.com compiled and none of them projected a 72% to 23% margin of victory for either candidate, like the Hawaiian TMT poll.
glinda says:
That's cute HOTPE, hang on to your hat.
As Maxwell Smart might have noted, “ahhhh, it’s the old ostrich with his head in the sand trick!”
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 07-20-2019
Open letter from Maunakea Observatories
https://maunakeaobservatories.org/aloha-to-scientific-colleagues/
"Aloha to our scientific colleagues around the world,
On behalf of the more than 500 people employed by the Maunakea Observatories, we offer a perspective about the Maunakea situation with the sincere hope that our words encourage greater understanding of the complex circumstances in which we find ourselves.
Staff members of the Maunakea Observatories, many of whom are born and raised in Hawai`i, feel a deep and personal connection to the special people and place of our Hawai`i Island home. We live and work together in a community where our success is measured by the quality of our relationships, one of the paramount reasons life here is enriching, rewarding and inspiring. Even in conflict, our differences don’t define us; our humble, reverent appreciation of our community does. The diverse mix of scientists, technicians, engineers, administrators, and students of the Maunakea Observatories continually seek a path forward that strengthens the future of our island community. Our local staff, family members, and friends have a wide range of views and strong feelings about the events that surround us. We deeply respect all these viewpoints, which come from our family and friends, and we both believe and champion their right to express them.
In our community, we are weathering the pain of rifts in these carefully tended relationships that will take mutual respect and time to heal. We know these challenges across our island home have gained attention with our peers in the international astronomy community. We understand your expressed concerns. We also urge your appreciation of the nuances and complexity of the issues we now face.
The future of Maunakea astronomy will be defined primarily by the diverse people of Hawai`i. The vast majority of island residents support the Maunakea Observatories, who have been part of this community for more than 50 years. Conflict about the Thirty Meter Telescope does not change the long-standing support our Observatories have earned, but it will undoubtedly influence its future. For the benefit of the people who work on the mountain, for those who practice their culture and religion on the mountain, we look to a future beyond coexistence because that still implies barriers. We look to a future in which knowledge and worldviews hybridize to create a reality more beautiful and resilient than its progenitors.
This is beginning already, through A Hua He Inoa, the interstellar asteroid ‘Oumuamua, black hole Powehi, and the unusual asteroids recently officially named Kamo`oalewa and Ka`epaoka`awela by Hawaiian students. We look to a future for Maunakea where studies of the universe are buoyed by the wisdom of Hawaiian kupuna and grounded in the richness of Hawaiian culture. We are nurturing this future now as devoted members of the Hawai`i Island and international astronomy communities. We ask for the informed understanding and support of our international astronomy community to uphold this vision, which we believe will be an important part of everyone’s future.
Mahalo"
Edited to remove control characters.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - glinda - 07-20-2019
EightFingers, I think in practicality the USA would pay handsomely to be Hawaiian's protectorate. In legal terms I think Hawaii would be an Associated State. Palau, the Marshall Islands, and the Federated States of Micronesia all have such agreements with the USA currently. But to maintain their military concerns here I am sure the USA would be eager to work out an agreement that suited everyone without too much humbug. Conversely, Hawaii could enter into the same kind of agreement with any number of other sovereigns.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - ironyak - 07-20-2019
HereOnThePrimalEdge - While those polls were off, they were not off by that much...
Agreed, but remember the numerous, large-scale presidential polls were of registered voters trying to predict the outcome of a vote (for which they still failed). In this case the poll is of registered, regular voters trying to account for support from a largely nonparticipating separate population. The missing data is how many Native Hawaiians are registered voters who vote regularly, which would help estimate the sample bias (which again has no easy way to assess).
Regardless, given that a number of people have choose direct action, and given both the legal requirements of the state along with the political atmosphere, a poll, or even a vote, isn't going to really solve or answer anything. The state and/or the TMT will need to assert its will in the process as those on the mountain already have done.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Kaimana - 07-20-2019
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
I can't believe how bigoted some of your are.
I had never experienced racism before moving here.
Nor have I ever seen such selective enforcement of the laws.
Maybe I can get me some of those Kingdom license plates. Might as well.
Where were you at before here?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - lisa - 07-20-2019
Thanks for posting Tom
I hope for the best for our island and our world. It seems we should be as proactive as possible.
As an aside, I watched a "parade?" of flagflying vehicles, many lifted (and enviable if you like that sort of thing), heading towards Pahoa on my way out of Puna this morning. Slight delay in hwy traffic while a flagflyer I was following attempted a u-turn to join the "parade" on the highway.
Sigh... so many better causes
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-20-2019
The missing data is how many Native Hawaiians are registered voters who vote regularly... (which again has no easy way to assess).
I agree, we have no way of knowing how many or how few are hidden Hawaiians when it comes to sovereignty.
One thing I’ve noticed, the current protestors have certainly magnified their presence in media coverage recently. A few days ago I read a headline, “Protestors Shut Down Feeeway.” I imagined a crowd of a hundred or hundreds standing across all lanes of traffic, cars at a standstill. When I read the article and watched the video it was four cars driving slow in four lanes so no one could pass. Effective in creating the headline they were looking for, but not exactly a massive gathering.
Thanks TomK for posting the open letter from the observatories. I hope all of you can return to work soon.