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+--- Thread: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July (/showthread.php?tid=21045)
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RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Kaimana - 07-21-2019
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
A couple of questions and notations from glinda’s Star-Advertiser link on the previous page:
For some, it’s not just a political issue. It’s spiritual for Kealoha Pisciotta, who’s long fought the telescope.
“The problem is being Hawaiian today is a political statement,” she said. “We have to take political action to practice religion.”
Is that true? How are Hawaiians unable to practice their religion? No aspect of Hawaiian religious or cultural ceremonies that I know of are currently banned or repressed as was the case after 1819.
“We protected and saved Kahoolawe from the United States military,” Ritte said. “Now we have to save and protect the rest of our islands.”
How did actions over the bombing of Kahoolawe affect the life of the average Native Hawaiian? Did it evolve into housing and jobs and self determination? I supported the efforts that stopped the bombing on Kahoolawe, as did most living on Maui at the time including the wealthy beachfront property owners in Kihei and Wailea who were instrumental in getting it to stop. They didn’t enjoy sitting in their back yards as jet planes flew overhead and dropped bombs on the island a few miles away, well within range of both sight and sound.
If past is prologue, if the TMT is stopped will the long term effects be any different than in the aftermath of the Kahoolawe bombing halt?
If the actions over Kahoolawe were part of an effort to “save and protect the rest of our islands” as Walter Ritte said, how does that compare with previous military events across the islands?
108 Battles - Big Island only
http://www.hawaiianwarfare.com/pages/battles-big-island/battles-by-district.php
1. They were going to close the Mauna.
2. To Hawaiians the land is a part of them. The stopping if the bombing want a means to an end it was the end itself.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - ironyak - 07-21-2019
Oh, Hawaii is not leaving the U.S. (not without a complete dissolution of the country). A long and bloody war was fought over this issue and no state was able to vote themselves out of the Union regardless of how they were annexed (I'm looking at you Texas). Never say never, but I'm not working on being fluent in Hawaiian, Russian, Chinese, or Korean(?) anytime soon.
PS It's nice to see you back Kaimana (although I'm sure we're not the best project) but you might want to trim down your quoted text.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - MarkP - 07-21-2019
It does not surprise me that protesters invoke Kaho'olawe for street cred but equating construction of the TMT with the bombing of Kaho'olawe is beyond stupid.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - randomq - 07-21-2019
This movement has really opened my eyes. My grandparents lost their ancestral land in Ireland during the potato famine, but I intend to go camp on it and take it back. We were there first, and our ancestors are buried there, so it's ours forever, right?
After that we're going to kick out the United Kingdom government and bring back the Irish monarchy. But the UK will still pay us billions.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-21-2019
1. They were going to close the Mauna.
Do you mean the updated regulations for the summit?
Weren’t the changes proposed because protestors claimed Mauna Kea was mismanaged?
Haven’t the original proposals been revised as per protestor’s input, so there are no restrictions on practitioners?
The mauna has been closed for a week now, preventing Hawaiian religious and cultural practices, but not as a result of management regulations or the observatories.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - kalakoa - 07-21-2019
Haven't the original proposals been revised
Didn't the ratification get postponed until next year?
closed for a week now, preventing Hawaiian religious and cultural practices
The closure is a Hawaiian religious and cultural practice.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - kalakoa - 07-21-2019
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/07/20/breaking-news/honolulu-council-member-visits-mauna-kea/
Hawaii island Mayor Harry Kim visited Mauna Kea Access Road this afternoon to praise the protesters for their behavior.
So much for the "rule of law".
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - ironyak - 07-21-2019
Rule of law? You sure you live here? (and always follow the rules too
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - glinda - 07-21-2019
Big Island Video News posted a video, made by DLNR, of the initial arrest of kupuna here..
https://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2019/07/20/video-state-releases-emotional-video-from-inside-mauna-kea-kupuna-arrests/
This is very emotional, a must see if you wish to comprehend what is happening, and should serve to quiet those that wish to bitch about the "rule of law" and all that silliness, and maybe, hopefully, instill in them some respect for what is happening here.
A snippet of the accompanying article...
On July 17, moments before over 30 kupuna were arrested on the Mauna Kea Access Road as they sat in resolute opposition to the Thirty Meter Telescope project, Lino Kamakau addressed the group of respected elders.
Kamakau is a veteran of the Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources' Division of Conservation and Resources Enforcement. He currently serves as the Hawaii Island Branch Chief, and has been in careful communication with the leaders of the TMT opposition, working to keep the tense situation safe. But, he is also charged with enforcing the law, which means he has to make way for the TMT construction crews to ascend the mountain.
A DLNR camera was over Kamakau's shoulder as he addressed the kupuna on July 17. On July 20, the state released the video...
More at the link above.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - randomq - 07-21-2019
the "rule of law" and all that silliness -- glinda
Yeah, rolling out the old folks is a real tear jerker. Totally not a gimmick. And old folks are never racist or full of outdated ideas. We should totally give up our democracy because some old folks got in trouble for blocking a road. I'm sure a monarchy would be much more fair to everyone...