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+--- Thread: TMT groundbreaking - live (/showthread.php?tid=14781)
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - ironyak - 04-10-2015
Ran across this thoughtful article. Maybe not a "We-Are-TMT" argument, but perhaps a view and discussion from the middle ground?
http://www.frolichawaii.com/stories/are-we-mauna-kea/
It links to this which is a well articulated head-on challenge to the anti-TMT / Hawaiian Kingdom movement. Comments are very worth a read as well.
http://www.bronsonkaahui.com/2015/04/08/tmt/
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - pbmaise - 04-10-2015
Large military bases, even firing ranges, have had an interesting unintended positive impact on nature.
By keeping developers and farmers out, these properties are some of the last areas available for endangered species.
Now off the endangered list we can in part thank the military.
Fort Riley, at the headwaters of the Kansas River, has
become one of the largest bald eagle wintering roosts in the continental United States, with an observed high of 388 eagles using the roost in just a single night.
Instead of going surfing and complaining , the military actual does stuff to protect the environment.... see.
http://www.army.mil/article/9198/
Of course that is probably just propaganda and Native Hawaiians would never harm rare and endangered species.
In fact, this article about far greater harm caused by Native Hawaiians, is probably just lies.
" pigs , goats , and deer has resulted in extensive biodiversity loss in Hawaii . These animals were introduced by the Polynesians as domesticated livestock, and now play a destructive role in
the local ecosystem ."
Furthermore rather than defending the watersheds, Native Hawaiians are cited as strongly objecting to
" Management and restoration plans are in place
already ; however, opposition from certain groups"
Read that Native Hawaiians
and the full article at
http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/390/hawaiian-biodiversity-loss-driven-by-feral-ungulates
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - PunaMauka2 - 04-10-2015
in the more fervent varieties of the game of activism, playing the spiritualism card can be a mighty handy strategy. pretty much a highly malleable wild card of epic proportions to manipulate as a most convenient trump.
inject a loaded term such as "sacred" into a cause or agenda and virtually all reasonable discourse can be sidestepped in one fell swoop. one can see similar methods in use the world over throughout time, whether implemented consciously or not, intentionally or otherwise. fundamentalist religious types naturally fall into using it on a regular basis. tea party republicans shamelessly wallow in it. interestingly, coming around full circle, far left activism definitely often utilizes it's version as well. ...basically wherever the mission towards a cause or belief system reaches the point of disproportionally consuming the participant's life and identity.
for the individual getting involved, seems to be a seductive and accessible route towards finding a sense of belonging or purpose where there may otherwise be a condition of anomie or some such void to fill.
i don't believe some degree of a sense of "spiritualism" necessarily need result in dogma, but it sure can be a swift and easy route to such corruption.
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - snorkle - 04-10-2015
HERE's a link to an article that gives multiple points of view.
edit; Sorry about the "mystery" link. It's to an article that gives multiple points of view.(Thought I said that)
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - PunaMauka2 - 04-10-2015
thanks for those links, ironyak. the bronsonkaahui.com was particularly interesting, agree the comments section very much included. encourage others to check it out as well.
will pass on clicking the mystery HERE link offered by the resident virtual jester in the post directly above mine here.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
Originally posted by ironyak
Ran across this thoughtful article. Maybe not a "We-Are-TMT" argument, but perhaps a view and discussion from the middle ground?
http://www.frolichawaii.com/stories/are-we-mauna-kea/
It links to this which is a well articulated head-on challenge to the anti-TMT / Hawaiian Kingdom movement. Comments are very worth a read as well.
http://www.bronsonkaahui.com/2015/04/08/tmt/
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - ironyak - 04-10-2015
Originally posted by snorkle
http://www.buzzfeed.com/azeenghorayshi/scientists-and-native-hawaiians-clash-over-construction-of-1
HERE's a link to an article that gives multiple points of view.
Not a big fan of mystery links either, but it is worth a read. Largely talks about some difficult discussions within the scientific community as scientists try to figure out what more might be possible, to do the project in a sensitive manner.
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 04-10-2015
inject a loaded term such as "sacred" into a cause or agenda and virtually all reasonable discourse can be sidestepped in one fell swoop
PM2, the Greeks and Romans had a term for it, "Deus ex machina." (deus is Latin for god, or if you would like to stretch the definition slightly, it could be extended to sacred)
In their plays, generally in a drama or tragedy, the plot would reach an unsolvable impasse, then suddenly a device, character, or god would be introduced to intervene and unexpectedly solve the problem. It's still a favorite plot device in movies today.
ironyak - thanks for the two links, a lot of intelligent even-tempered information and discussion on both sites.
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - randomq - 04-10-2015
Why don't we just build it, and see what the gods do afterwards? If they don't destroy it with lava or earthquakes then who are we to talk?
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - ironyak - 04-10-2015
This one's for you dakine. Has pics & video - good stuff IMHO.
http://khon2.com/2015/04/10/hundreds-form-chain-at-uh-manoa-to-protest-thirty-meter-telescope-2/
Hundreds of University of Hawaii at Manoa students and others gathered in protest of the construction of the Thirty Meter Telescope Friday.
The rally began at 10 a.m. at the taro patches near the Kamakakuokalani Center for Hawaiian Studies.
One by one, participants passed pohaku, or stones, all the way to Bachman Lawn, where an ahu, or shrine, was constructed.
The pohaku represents each participant’s voice and sends a visual message to the University of Hawaii, which manages the lease activity atop the mountain.
RE: TMT groundbreaking - live - snorkle - 04-10-2015
No joke here;
randomq;
Such disrespectful remarks seriously makes me wonder why some people live here.
Kind of like the "Let's just kill em all, and let God sort em out attitude" of Manifest Destiny Christians towards all "Heathen Savages".