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+--- Thread: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway (/showthread.php?tid=19891)
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - TomK - 03-21-2019
MarkP's point is absolutely valid. I don't know if Roundup causes cancer although I have no reason to suspect if it's used incorrectly it won't cause harm. But to suggest juries outweigh scientific evidence is alarming if not downright dangerous.
Fortunately, science got us through the dark ages, but given the juries of those days, Galaileo's discoveries would have been kept from us forever and we'd still be claiming the Earth is the center of the universe. That's just one simple example. Unfortunately, we seem to be going back to that era; conspiracy theories abound and we live in a community with an alien star ship landing site but many of whom don't want us to research space on Mauna Kea - and now think court juries' opinions are the ultimate truth. What a sad state of affairs future generations will have to handle.
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - MarkP - 03-21-2019
"Would that be the plaintive's or the defense's version of science?"
Like I said, the jury's.
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - PaulW - 03-22-2019
Glindakine: "I see someone suggesting that ultimately science will decide Roundup's fate. I agree"
Glad to see you accept science as the arbiter of truth (unlike EW, who prefers to rely on his supernatural instincts).
Hopefully this will remain the case even if/when it doesn't go your way.
HOTPE: "I am also convinced Roundup caused the defendant’s illness."
Why do you say this? Has a mechanism been identified via which Roundup could cause cancer?
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 03-22-2019
HOTPE: "I am also convinced Roundup caused the defendant’s illness."
Why do you say this?
I should have said... "convinced Roundup could have caused this..."
It's certainly possible that when a substance a billion times stronger full strength than when diluted is applied directly to human skin, without wearing gloves or a protective suit - - that illness could result. However, this is probably true of hundreds/thousands/millions of products or even natural extracts.
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - MarkP - 03-22-2019
Caffeine kills frogs. Just sayin'.
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - geochem - 03-22-2019
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
[i]HOTPE:
It's certainly possible that when a substance a billion times stronger full strength than when diluted is applied directly to human skin, without wearing gloves or a protective suit - - that illness could result. However, this is probably true of hundreds/thousands/millions of products or even natural extracts.
More like especially natural extracts - I'll cite Bruce Ames again:
"And then you start looking at the natural pesticides in plants. Every plant makes a hundred toxic chemicals to kill off the predators. All of plant evolution is chemical warfare because they don’t have, they can’t run away. They don’t have immune systems. How do plants defend themselves? Toxic chemicals. So every time you eat a broccoli, you’re getting a hundred toxic chemicals.
So, so anyway when you test those, half of them come out as carcinogens just the way pesticides do. Mold toxins, natural chemicals in roasted coffee, sorry about that, commercial pesticides, mutagens. Non-mutagens." ...
" ...And the point of that is, if you scare people about a thousand minor hypothetical risks, you’re lost, because nobody knows what’s important anymore. And there are really important things out there. We’re eating a horrible diet. We’re getting fat. We’re not getting our vitamins. And all this really matters. Being obese is linked to every – 40 different diseases, cancer, and all sorts of other things. And you don’t get your iron or zinc, you batter up your DNA. It’s like getting irradiated if you don’t get your folic acid. So, and the poor are eating horrible diets, so I think they’re destroying their brains in addition to all their biochemistry."
The whole lecture is at this link: https://lybio.net/dr-bruce-ames-toxicologist-on-toxic-chemicals-scaremongering/science-technology/
This is another quote from one of his papers:
"There are more rodent carcinogens in a single cup of coffee than potentially carcinogenic pesticide residues in the average American diet in a year, and there are still a thousand chemicals left to test in roasted coffee."
A shill for the chemicals industry? No, one of the most highly respected toxicologists of the last 40 years; worked at UC Berkelely. He invented one of the most widely used tests for toxicity and mutagenicity in use today.
All of this claptrap about toxicity of roundup is pure nonsense. Although I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, I do wonder if this isn't a coordinated attack on the US agricultural industry...
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - PaulW - 03-22-2019
"I do wonder if this isn't a coordinated attack on the US agricultural industry"
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - randomq - 03-22-2019
There may be a link to Autism according to this study:
https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l962
I guess we're lucky we live in "fake" agricultural subdivisions here in Puna?
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - kalakoa - 03-22-2019
"fake" agricultural subdivisions
Better yet, not reopening highway 132 will prevent application of Roundup across many many square miles. Think of the savings!
RE: Roundup (cancer causing substance) cases underway - MarkP - 03-22-2019
I don't imagine my scrap of lava land ever saw commercial applications of anything. A silver lining of sorts.