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+--- Thread: Hawaiian Recognition. (/showthread.php?tid=13892)
RE: Hawaiian Recognition. - kalakoa - 07-07-2014
The war was made legal in 1897
...and the "because we said so" tradition continues to this day.
RE: Hawaiian Recognition. - opihikao - 07-07-2014
Mahalo for the discussion. This is what I meant by varied interpretations of our history, and the events that occurred. I stand with Carol on this one, with all due respect to Pahoated.
Kathy, yes, it is a convoluted hot mess!
The issue today is where do we go from here? To move forward and find balance, is the challenge. The USA will never leave Hawai'i, reparation will be decades away (if ever), and the United Nations or whatever international entity, will not be able to force the USA to "give back" anything.
I respectfully request that all of us write our opinion (whether for or against us becoming a "tribe") to the DOI by the deadline of August 18, 2014, in order to get a response from the US government.
As of today, my personal decision is that I hold dual citizenship. I am a proud kanaka maoli first under the Kingdom of Hawai'i, and a proud American.
My kupuna signed the Ku'e petition, and it is painful to stand in their stead to be their voice; especially as an "American". Auwe!
JMO.
RE: Hawaiian Recognition. - opihikao - 07-07-2014
FYI: On LIVE now - From Lahaina, Maui
Lahaina was the capital of the Kingdom of Hawaii, tonight in Maui shown live, the kanaka maoli testify:
http://akaku.org/akaku-channel-live-stream/
(7:15pm - Going until 9:00pm)
RE: Hawaiian Recognition. - Guest - 07-07-2014
Every land in history was stolen from someone.
America was stolen from my Native American ancestors.
RE: Hawaiian Recognition. - rainyjim - 07-07-2014
Good point, however maybe it deserves another thread because it seems rather callous to make such a statement in light of the subject matter.
RE: Hawaiian Recognition. - missydog1 - 07-07-2014
Yes, land has been stolen everywhere. Invaders have raped and pillaged their way around the world and taken it by force many times over.
However, international law has evolved over time, and aggression and treaty breaking has become more and more unacceptable. Even in the early 20th century, the Germans had to make war reparations as a consequence of wrongfully starting the first world war and losing it. The idea of reparations by nations to other nations is not new.
The United States has also made reparations to Native Americans at times for certain reasons, typically for illegal behavior rather than humanitarian impulses, whether or not those were fair and just in the eyes of the recipients. The recognition of need for reparation to Hawaiians has been a long time coming, but now seems to be the time.
RE: Hawaiian Recognition. - deserteagle50ae - 07-08-2014
Well said KathyH.
RE: Hawaiian Recognition. - Seeb - 07-08-2014
quote:and the anger over that was the direct cause of the Brown Shirts coming to power.
[ Even in the early 20th century, the Germans had to make war reparations as a consequence of wrongfully starting the first world war and losing it.
So not a good example!
My grandparents lived through that S**t
RE: Hawaiian Recognition. - Chunkster - 07-08-2014
I've tried to educate myself on the history of the USA in Hawaii, and I've followed the various recognition and sovereignty proposals for well over a decade now. My purely personal and unscientific observations have brought me to some conclusions. Again, I'm not trolling but sincerely trying to contribute to the discussion. Here goes:
1. OHA has been neither well managed nor very successful in its efforts to put Hawaiians on their land in homes. Whatever model Hawaiins seek, it needs to be different and/or much better managed than OHA. I should add that I don't think OHA was set up to be a true governing body, but it exists and is part of the picture.
2. Hawaiians don't seem to be able to agree on a basic model to follow, and many I know express feeling burnout from all the sign-up campaigns. This is perhaps the biggest impediment to success, IMHO.
3. The only "government within a government" model the current US legal system seems to be able to cope with is the Native American tribal model, hence the Obama administration's move in that direction. I'm no expert, but I think a restored sovereign Kingdom would face extreme legal and even constitutional obstacles. The current congress is unable to pass a budget, so I don't see them creating a venue for a restored Hawaiian Kingdom any time soon.
4. Any settlement involving the legacy of the Kingdom will have to include the descendants of non-Hawaiian citizens of said Kingdom.
5. Many intelligent and reasonable Hawaiians, including our respected Opihikao, are rejecting the tribal government model which seems to be all that's on offer at this time.
6. Secession is illegal.
Just some points for everyone to ponder.
RE: Hawaiian Recognition. - kalakoa - 07-08-2014
OHA has been neither well managed nor very successful in its efforts to put Hawaiians on their land in homes.
Opinion: part of this is due to the requirement that the "home" be fully permitted, which does not come cheap. For a fraction of the cost, anyone (native or otherwise) can afford a "substandard" agricultural lot which is not subject to these restrictions.