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+--- Thread: Punatics for PGV (/showthread.php?tid=14337)
RE: Punatics for PGV - leilanidude - 08-23-2014
That the electric price isn't cheaper is not a fault of PGV.
It is the state's fault due to the contracts that stipulated all alternative energy sources be paid for at the "alternative cost of oil". The intent was to help alternative energy projects get a good start.
The plant is also forced to pay royalties to the state for the steam it uses (which it puts right back), pays into the relocation fund, and all of the other taxes and fees that this state and county heap upon it.
Where do some of you believe that this money comes from?
It does NOT come from some evil corporation - it comes from YOU, as users of electricity, who pay your HELCO bill every month.
PGV has been trying to negotiate new contracts, at lowered costs to HELCO. There are several strategic reasons why they would be so willing to do this. They want to be able to expand and sell more electricity and in selling more, will enable them to leverage existing infrastructure to keep their overall costs down (and profits up).
RE: Punatics for PGV - DanielP - 08-23-2014
So, would it be better to be next to one of the old oil-fired generators?
I think the long-term plan would be to (once the oil-fired plants are paid for) change over to more renewable sources of electricity, such as more geothermal, wind and solar. Then prices should be able to come down.
RE: Punatics for PGV - leilanidude - 08-23-2014
One of my fears for this island is that someday, one of those barges carrying diesel or fuel oil will have a major mishap somewhere along the coast (or even in Hilo Bay). I will gladly put up with an occasional noise issue from PGV than to see this coastline ruined by an oil spill.
Because of the baseload produced by PGV, HELCO has already shut down the generating plant on Banyan Drive and has had the Shipman generating plant idled, if not already in shutdown - for over a year.
danielp - Wind and solar energy production actually costs MORE than geothermal and diesel electric generation. Geothermal is by far the lowest cost of all types though for this island.
RE: Punatics for PGV - snorkle - 08-23-2014
There have been some profound effects stemming from these tax mines; Number one is that I can afford to live here in Hawaii. Another, is that the taxes mined have helped pay for a lot of our infrastructure. Another, is that not only are the Properties being mined, but so are the 50,000- 60,000 people that live on them.
We residents pay tax every time we buy an ipad, soda, gallon of gas, or bag of herb...(well, maybe not the herb).
As far as HELCO/Oil/Geothermal/energy goes; It doesn't really matter where we get our power; As long as it is transmitted through the Albezia infested spaghetti grid, HELCO maintains control. We are extorted for the electricity and the costly maintenance. Have you noticed that this 19th century technology is vulnerable? Do you think HELCO is going to pay for the fix?
The solution is to take control of our own power. The technology is here and advancing exponentially. Think you can't afford it? It's getting cheaper everyday. Is HELCO?
RE: Punatics for PGV - Obie - 08-23-2014
Here is link to a good study that explains how clean geothermal power is:
http://geo-energy.org/reports/GeothermalGreenhouseEmissionsNov2012GEA_web.pdf
One paragraph.
"Because geothermal systems naturally contain these gases, they also naturally vent them to the atmosphere through diffusive gas discharges from areas of natural leakage, including hot springs,
fumaroles, geysers, hot pools, and mud pots.
These natural discharges have taken place throughout the
history of the Earth and continue today independent
of geothermal power production
.
Carbon dioxide is the most widely emitted gas because geothermal systems tend to be found in areas with large fluxes of carbon dioxide
.
Methane is the second most common greenhouse gas emitted naturally from geothermal systems, but those emissions are minimal."
RE: Punatics for PGV - Obie - 08-23-2014
A few years ago,Puna Pono had a primer on their website that was meant to give people the best possible answers to the health studies.
The people complaining about health issues are quoting almost word for word from that primer.
Coincidence ???
RE: Punatics for PGV - Guest - 08-23-2014
Obie quote:
"Is anyone else sick and tired of PunaPono and Bob Petricci ?"
Obie, more then you know, it appears from my perspective, that Mr. Bob Pettricci is working towards the same goals as you.
Now, how is it that I can say that ?
Because if Bob Pettricci and the Puna Pono Alliance are the watchdogs on geothermal development, why would they, Bob Pettricci and the Puna Pono Alliance, promote and endorse, SB2274, which was a bill, that amended a section of the law, to add Geothermal Resources and Sustainable Living Research Sites into the same section of the law, right above one another?
Check it out for yourself. Do your own research. Here is the link.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2014/bills/SB2274_SD1_.HTM
(1) Geothermal resources exploration and geothermal resources development, as defined under section 182 1[, as permissible uses.]; and
(2) Sustainable living research sites pursuant to chapter .
How is it that, Bob Pettricci, president of the Puno Pono Alliance, told me, that he would call the police, if my neighborhood group, came to the Puno Pono Alliance meeting, to discuss the words "Geothermal resources exploration and geothermal resources development" that was stuffed inside the "Sustainable" Living Research Bill?
Clue... There is a lot of money to be made off the definition 'Geothermal resources'. It includes not just the steam but the brines and gases, as well.
According to 30 USCS ยง 1102 (1), the term geothermal resources means "(A) all products of geothermal processes, embracing indigenous steam, hot water, and brines, (B) steam and other gases, hot water and hot brines, resulting from water, gas, or other fluids artificially introduced into geothermal formations, and © any byproduct derived from them."
Who gets that money? I am getting busy today but later I ready want to research what are some of the more important substances that can be had from the gases, hot water and brines.
remember geothermal sources is very different from geothermal resources.
RE: Punatics for PGV - kalakoa - 08-23-2014
Geothermal Resources and Sustainable Living Research Sites into the same section of the law
Show of hands: how many are tired of this misrepresentation?
Yes, SB2274 mentions geothermal -- right after the verbiage about "directing County to create a process".
It does NOT simply "allow" geothermal or anything else.
Who gets that money?
County (meaning: new roads in Kona) and State (meaning: new roads in Waikiki).
RE: Punatics for PGV - Kelena - 08-23-2014
I never said PGV was responsible. I said it was one of two problems with the plant. The other problem is that it is owned by an Israeli company. The US should be able to operate a power plant.
RE: Punatics for PGV - pahoated - 08-23-2014
SB 2274 is a dead horse, no reason to keep flogging it except Ruderman might be answering more questions about his involvement. There is a video where Ruderman has to argue against his own bill, again, because that geothermal line was added, not by him. Then Solomon declined to hear it in committee, which killed the bill. Theoretically, it could be resurrected in the next legislative session but it is radioactive toxic now. The Hawaii government tends to bury all its radioactive toxic waste.
Ormat hasn't shown to be an exceptional geothermal power provider, but it was also one of the first geothermal plants, now using fairly dated technology, over 20 years in operation. Ormat should have taken it upon themselves to clear the vegetation away from the mains, as far as feasible. They didn't build the berms they said they would for additional wells. They don't have the technical competence to put lightning arrestors around the plant. They could easily build some kind of containment building over the steam venting section, so the steam releases could go off in there, then be filtered out into the atmosphere. It's obvious Ormat, an Israeli company, does not want to put any more money into the plant than they absolutely have to. It is crappy management but that is the way of a lot of business.
"We come in peace!" - First thing said by missionaries and extraterrestrials