+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Hawaiian culture and modern community development. (/showthread.php?tid=14811)
RE: Hawaiian culture and modern community development. - Wao nahele kane - 10-12-2014
Well Paul, it would appear that you're in the dark with regard to a common known fact. The aboriginal tribes of Australia are considered to be the oldest living practicing tribes on the planet of an estimated 65,000 years. They are not alone with regard to their practice in early human cultural lifestyle as there remain several other tribes globally that still live in traditional lifestyle practices with some that have little to no contact with the outside world and are protected by the nations they are within. So as you troll me yet again within your infatuated state, perhaps you might consider a little research on the topic before questioning the validity of the photos.
James, the topic was more or less a way to get a sense of what people know about culture and it's integration within community development and to bring an awareness of the issue to some who perhaps have never contemplated the subject. It is a very deep subject and not really easy to address but none the less it is a subject that we westerners need to be aware of as we live here within the islands. Not just a superficial awareness but a more intimate awareness of a peoples culture and it's fate within this developing community. The example I tossed out as a possibility was merely that and was in no way shape or form an attempt to create such native community by me but rather a what if this was proposed by the native people. Is this something that could be accepted by the larger community, would it be embraced or frowned upon. Do we as westerners really respect the Hawaiian culture or do we simply pay it lip service while expressing the impossibilities of seemingly radical cultural integrations?
RE: Hawaiian culture and modern community development. - PaulW - 10-12-2014
A little research? You know all about that, you simply googled "aboriginal" and then posted a link.
You have no idea what you're talking about, who those people pictured are or how they live.
Maybe people would be more inclined to read your long rambling posts if you did so yourself and removed all of the typos before posting. That's what the Preview button is for. By the way, "it's" = "it is".
RE: Hawaiian culture and modern community development. - MarkP - 10-12-2014
Really sounds like those people are alleged to be from Australia. Pretty sure they are actually from New Guinea.
RE: Hawaiian culture and modern community development. - opihikao - 10-12-2014
Kane, appreciate the topic and effort, discussion is good. However, as you note, each time anything (especially cultural) comes up, it goes to hell quickly. Tired of the banter, and the continued disrespect of our culture by some.
Don't always agree with you (or others here), but will defend your right to say it. My father served this country in the Army, and fought for the right of free speech. To be chastised for an opinion is how we kanaka have been silenced for decades. Beaten for speaking our own language, forced to speak perfect English, forced to adopt western protocol in all aspects of life, and much more. As a minority here on this forum, finding balance is difficult.
Kudos to you for standing up for your beliefs, and presentation of ideas that make sense to you. At the very least, you are indeed thinking about our culture, and I mahalo you for that.
We all should be allowed to do the same without judgement. That is what the USofA granted us as Americans, while taking over control of our lands and assets.
Mahalo again for the thought provoking thread, however, it might be better to keep us in our cellophane hula skirts and coconut bras. Otherwise, we may not be so dependent on society as we know it.
Have a lovely day all, and be safe. Spending mine with ohana, now that I've checked in with my "PW ohana". [
] JMO.
RE: Hawaiian culture and modern community development. - csgray - 10-12-2014
quote:
Originally posted by Wao nahele kane
So now that the topic is derailed again, this time regarding aboriginal tribes. Let's look at that for just a moment. From what csgray wrote we would then assume no living cultural tribe would exist today. That's interesting because there are practicing tribe in Australia. Here's a few pictures from such a tribe. http://www.looneypalace.com/modern-aborigines/
With regard the remaining politics and history there still remains a practice of the old cultural lifestyle. Yet... somehow that doesn't exist according to a few folks here.
Back on topic and to my original point, where do we have this sort of daily living practice occurring here in Hawaii under the control of the Hawaiian peoples?
As far as derailing goes, you are the one who brought up the Australian Aboriginals as a totally erroneous example of a culture that had been left to their own devises, I merely corrected you on that claim, do not put any other words in my mouth beyond that.
There are thousands of acres controlled by the Hawaiian Homelands and available to people who want to put together a proposal for leasing those lands. I have never heard of a Native Hawaiian group proposing a return to the traditional Ahupua'a land use system, which was totally intertwined with the Kapu system and feudal social system. It would be very hard to return to that sort of land use system without the social controls on behavior that were key to that system functioning. Punishment for taking a fish out of season could be extreme, there were specialized kahuna who regulated planting, harvest, all resource extraction, fishing, irrigation and building, as well as every other aspect of how the people lived on the land. The kapu system and the punishments for violating a kapu were the power that backed up their decisions.
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
RE: Hawaiian culture and modern community development. - csgray - 10-12-2014
quote:
Originally posted by Wao nahele kane
So now that the topic is derailed again, this time regarding aboriginal tribes. Let's look at that for just a moment. From what csgray wrote we would then assume no living cultural tribe would exist today. That's interesting because there are practicing tribe in Australia. Here's a few pictures from such a tribe. http://www.looneypalace.com/modern-aborigines/
With regard the remaining politics and history there still remains a practice of the old cultural lifestyle. Yet... somehow that doesn't exist according to a few folks here.
Back on topic and to my original point, where do we have this sort of daily living practice occurring here in Hawaii under the control of the Hawaiian peoples?
You are putting words in people's mouths again, no one here said that traditional cultural practices don't exist. I said that native people have not been left to their own devices as you claimed, big difference. Culture is a living thing, it changes and adapts to circumstances, it is not frozen in time at the point of first encounters with colonizers.
Those people in the link you provided are not Australian Aboriginals, looks more like Papua New Guinea to me from the landscape, the buildings, the ***** sheaths and mummified dead.
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
RE: Hawaiian culture and modern community development. - DanielP - 10-12-2014
Hey Carol,
What constitutes other people's nonsense?
RE: Hawaiian culture and modern community development. - csgray - 10-12-2014
quote:
Originally posted by DanielP
Hey Carol,
What constitutes other people's nonsense?
Gossip and pot stirring of a personal nature. Certainly not the open exchange of ideas.
Carol
Every time you feel yourself getting pulled into other people's nonsense, repeat these words: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
Polish Proverb
RE: Hawaiian culture and modern community development. - Wao nahele kane - 10-12-2014
" Australia [edit] Main article: Pintupi Nine
In 1984, a group of Pintupi people who were living a traditional hunter-gatherer life were tracked down in the Gibson Desert in Western Australia. For the first time, they encountered people from the Australian society. They are believed to have been the last uncontacted tribe in Australia. [6]"
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples
Regardless of the content in the previous linked photos, some from Australia and others not. The fact remains there are still living peoples in Australia that have continued their traditional lifestyles regardless of western influence.
I stand by my original statement for its intended purposes.
RE: Hawaiian culture and modern community development. - DanielP - 10-12-2014
Maybe some North of Waipio, but some contact.