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+--- Thread: HPP stuff (/showthread.php?tid=15451)
RE: HPP stuff - Rob Tucker - 01-25-2015
Sure. None.
RE: HPP stuff - mermaid53 - 01-25-2015
Katarina, I must say you are relentless w/your agenda to continuously jab at me and others. WE GET IT...you're a friend of the TE's. You're trying your best to be a good foot soldier. But you evidently have nothing new to bring to the table.
I know hppwatchdog and he knows me. I've known him for 4+ years. I hold no ill will towards him.
RE: HPP stuff - mermaid53 - 01-25-2015
quote:
Originally posted by shockwave rider
There are all kinds of volunteer boards who manage to successfully do their jobs, overseeing far larger organizations than the HPPOA, but they need to understand their job is not the day to day operations, their job is oversight of the hired employees and making sure the money is properly handled. It is too big of a job for a volunteer board who try to micromanage the employees or run the place themselves.
I totally agree with all of the above.
I served on a volunteer board of a nonprofit that had close to 100 employees and a much bigger budget, and the organization was healthy and well run, but we all went through a board training that included the by laws, pertinent state and federal law, and Robert's Rules of Order before being seated, so we understood our role was oversight and policy making, and we did not try to set ourselves up as managers (paid or unpaid) of the organization. I knew my role did not include supervising the employees or making demands of them. If the board wanted information or documentation the request went on the agenda and management was directed to take care of it. Individual board members did not go into the office and make demands of the staff or interfere with them doing their jobs. We did our jobs as board members and they did their jobs according to their job descriptions, that is how a well run non profit operates.
I'm in total agreement with you again. Most of us agree there's a big problem w/some of the board's delay in the hiring process and managing HPP all this time. I will reiterate that there is an inner struggle going on w/this board now. Unfortunately all we can do is watch to see what happens next. I agree w/your thoughts on education and am personally pushing for mandatory education on our bylaws, RR's etc. for all the board members every year. With your experience, you could be an asset to this process.
HPPOA cannot outsource the job of HPPOA board members, the board is the body that provides oversight, and who wants to trust that job to outsiders? It doesn't matter if maintenance is done by a contractor or HPPOA employees, the board would still need to be the oversight body and we cannot contract out that responsibility.
When I suggested outsourcing, I meant outsource the road and shoulder maintenance. Not get rid of the board. And we would only pay for what work was completed.
RE: HPP stuff - hppwatchdog - 01-25-2015
quote:Rob this will never happen. I've met with the county engineer to ask him this question. Evidently the County signed off their responsibility to maintain any private subdivision roads. Also, if HPP was to abandon their roads the County would put them in "roads in limbo" and would not do any maintenance for 5 years, then they would review each situation and may not take them over even then.
Originally posted by mermaid53
quote:I agree. Can you tell me which subdivisions are involved so far?
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
Since the primary issue and purpose for the HPPOA is roads... the best solution I can offer is for HPP to join with the other AG subdivisions and sue the county regarding the CoH's violation of county code in originally approving these non conforming subdivisions. Force the county to take on the liabilities of it's own creations and in doing so lighten the load on all the property owners.
It's only been 56 years of this BS. Isn't enough enough?
Imagine what the park would look like with no maintenance for 5 years.
RE: HPP stuff - kalakoa - 01-26-2015
8,835 lots times $275 equals $2.4 million
Yet HPP still relies on volunteers to run their Board?
HPP was to abandon their roads the County would put them in "roads in limbo"
RIL are those roads which were both "created by a government" and "prior to Statehood". Otherwise, the "private" subdivision roads would be eligible for State grant money through the RIL program.
the best solution I can offer is for HPP to join with the other AG subdivisions and sue the county
This "solution" requires a taxpayer-funded legal defense; if successful, it would then require taxpayer-funded road maintenance. While I agree 110% that County should step up and take responsibility, I also think there's a cheaper way to accomplish this goal.
It's important to note that not all subdivisions want full first-class paved roads, but in the lawsuit scenario, they would share the burden of the lawsuit, as well as pay the increased taxes, even if they don't want the "benefit".
If the "geothermal relocation program" is any indication of how the issue would be handled, thanks but no thanks.
RE: HPP stuff - shockwave rider - 01-26-2015
There are probably 1000s of non profits with volunteer boards, they are the oversight body, not the managers. HPP should have employees who run the subdivision, the board members who decided their role was to "manage" the subdivision are functioning far outside of their mandate as board members.
RE: HPP stuff - kalakoa - 01-26-2015
the board members who decided their role was to "manage" the subdivision
Translation: manage the subdivision's money.
RE: HPP stuff - shockwave rider - 01-26-2015
No, they are trying to actually manage the nuts and bolts operations of maintaining our roads.
Please don't put words into my mouth to make a rhetorical point.
Boards are generally responsible for the budget, control the bank accounts (two signers should be required on all checks), and are supposed to be the oversight for employee money handling. This board is trying to be both the policy setting body and manage the day to day operations, including the money handling. So at this time, the body that is supposed to create and supervise the carrying out of policies such as the money handling protocols is also handling the daily implementation of the policies and the money that comes into and goes out of the Association.
RE: HPP stuff - hppwatchdog - 01-26-2015
I finally received a copy of the 2013-14 fiscal audit.
First, it was like pulling teeth. First trip to the office requesting this document, Susan Escobar looked like a deer caught in headlights. (Remember that the bylaws specifically state that each owner is entitled to this document upon request)
I was referred to the Treasurer for distribution of the audit. Well, upon a return trip to the office she said, "she wasn't aware that the audit was to be distributed to the owners". Which I replied, "Can you read"?
After a few weeks I did receive a copy.
I have reviewed the audit along with the managers letter from the accounting firm in detail.
All funds are accounted for, (not 5 cents missing) no signs of fraud, the accounting and accounting principles used were approved by the auditor and they even gave recognition to the GM for starting and running an excellent collection program.
(The same program that Janice inferred to when she patted herself on the back for substantial collections efforts in the past six months. Sure, someone else built the car and all you have to do is turn the key and drive it!)
With that said, all the claims of missing money, fraud, padded time cards, etc. and the reason that they had to take quick action on behalf of the Association are all LIES!
(Read the presidents letter on the website, just more evidence to bury them with)
And many people wonder why the TE are suing the Association and 6 directors for defamation and false light.
This is why and it's all on video tape, and Janice Ashford is a star.
(Remember when Mermaid said that she had to speak for the board)
So if you were thinking why the Board hasn't made a big deal about the results of the audit, that's why. The auditor says that the TE did a very good job, along with the old Treasurer.
There is no where to hide when a third party comes in and audits the books, which should have been done the day after the staff was wrongly fired, after that all, the evidence they will produce is spoiled because the mighty 4 had a chance to alter or destroy it!
In my opinion, the law suit against the Association is a slam dunk.
RE: HPP stuff - kalakoa - 01-26-2015
the body that is supposed to create and supervise the carrying out of policies such as the money handling protocols is also handling the daily implementation of the policies and the money that comes into and goes out of the Association.
This scenario could easily create the appearance of impropriety even where none exists.
received a copy of the 2013-14 fiscal audit ... it was like pulling teeth.
See above.
No, they are trying to actually manage the nuts and bolts operations of maintaining our roads.
Per these forums (which are, I admit, hardly authoritative) the board seems to spend most of its time fending off lawsuits, not maintaining the roads.