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+--- Thread: Waste Incinerator Proposed For NELHA (/showthread.php?tid=1651)
RE: Waste Incinerator Proposed For NELHA - Aaron S - 12-11-2007
quote:
I agree that NELHA would be a poor location for a WTE plant. Hilo would be a more logical place to attempt one. Is the "anonomous tipster" the only source for this claim? Has it been reported by a credible journalist?
Believe me, I originally sat on this tip for a few weeks until more creditable information became available. To me when Mayor Kim acknowledges the existence of this proposal, thats good enough for me.
RE: Waste Incinerator Proposed For NELHA - Aaron S - 12-11-2007
quote:
NIMBY -
You have stated publicly that this is in your neighborhood.
Where would you propose such a thing?
I'll make this simple- nowhere. Waste incineration has NO PLACE on this beautiful island.
RE: Waste Incinerator Proposed For NELHA - Bob Orts - 12-11-2007
If on the conservative side of estimates, the average individual generates 10lbs of non-recyclable waste per week, and with 150,000 population, that's 39,000 tons of trash that must be disposed of. Add in commercial, construction, medical, and tourist garbage, plus not everyone compost or recycles their garbage, what would you suggest be done with all that trash?
Until a viable alternative for what to do with the trash is suggested, a WTE incinerator sound just as good as dumping it into a hole in the ground.
RE: Waste Incinerator Proposed For NELHA - james weatherford - 12-11-2007
"what is done with our glass & aluminum recycling...?"
Glass has been mostly put into road mix here on the island for paving. I understand there is also some crushed glass used for landscaping.
Metal, plastic, and paper are sold into the international market, which is red hot, especially in China and India.
Local businesses (e.g., Business Services Hawaii; Atlas Recycling) do this. In fact, the incinerator will doom these local entrepreneurs, because plastic and paper are key feedstock for WTE.
With empty containers leaving Hilo port, and the high market value of these materials, shipping is what is working.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
RE: Waste Incinerator Proposed For NELHA - james weatherford - 12-11-2007
This is misrepresents what I said: "average individual generates 10lbs of non-recyclable waste per week."
The 8 to 9 lbs is ALL stuff, not just 'non-recyclables.'
And, that amount includes everything, including "commercial, construction, medical, and tourist garbage", not just household.
The whole point is that neither WTE nor
"dumping it into a hole in the ground" are the limit of options.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
RE: Waste Incinerator Proposed For NELHA - Bob Orts - 12-11-2007
James, I was using the EPA's (2006 gross solid waste per person) figures of 29 lbs per person per week, of which 19 lbs is estimated (2006 EPA residential available recycle load) as recyclable or can be composted. Their figures are only residential, not including any commercial or industrial solid waste.
I agree there may be alternatives to incineration or landfill of material unable to be recycled or composted using commercially viable methods, but I'm not hearing them. My point is WTE just shuffles the problems of solid waste from ground to air.
My opposition to normal WTE incinerators is the mixed load of trash. Burning a specific product, waste wood, or plastics, or petro-chemical waste products, or paper, etc impact is much smaller than mixed loads of everything and some things nobody can identify. I’ve never seen any mixed load incinerator (destruction or WTE) that has met its environmental claims. I’m also not a fan of using the term “Waste to Energy”. Isn’t it still an incinerator?
RE: Waste Incinerator Proposed For NELHA - Scott_S - 12-11-2007
Ugh, just lost a mile long post. Oh well.
Rob, with out the ASF(alternative solid fuels) we burn about 20 tph of coal. We have, so far, substituted up to 8 tph with ASF.
The project consists of 4 shredders, belt lines, and feeders. The bulk of the material used is tires, whole or shredded. Other materials that have been run are carpet, chicken litter, plastics( all kinds), and straw, basically anything that has some BTU content. We completed the project about a year ago for a cost of around 7 million.
This is a Lafarge cement plant here in Calera, AL that produces 1.5 million tons of cement a year. The logistics of getting material in is run by Systech which is now owned by Lafarge. Systech has been around for many years doing resource recovery. At the plant I worked for in Alpena, MI ( a 2.5 mtpy plant) we use to burn liquid wastes also. The Alpena plant also produces 50 mega watts of power from waste heat boilers. A cement kiln typically burns hotter than an incinerator, 2600 degrees f.
I am not trying to promote incinerators but if you have a facility that is burning coal anyway it makes sense. Our emissions are lower when running ASF. My part in all this is writing the control code, creating the operator screens, and laying out the instrumentaion and control power side.
I should add that most of these materials are fairly clean, not counting the chicken litter whew!!, but some days it still looks like a landfill. It is a major effort keeping the area cleaned up.
Scott
Edited by - scott_s on 12/12/2007 04:05:03
RE: Waste Incinerator Proposed For NELHA - james weatherford - 12-12-2007
quote:
James, I was using the EPA's (2006 gross solid waste per person) figures of 29 lbs per person per week, of which 19 lbs is estimated (2006 EPA residential available recycle load) as recyclable or can be composted. Their figures are only residential, not including any commercial or industrial solid waste.
I agree there may be alternatives to incineration or landfill of material unable to be recycled or composted using commercially viable methods, but I'm not hearing them. My point is WTE just shuffles the problems of solid waste from ground to air.
My opposition to normal WTE incinerators is the mixed load of trash. Burning a specific product, waste wood, or plastics, or petro-chemical waste products, or paper, etc impact is much smaller than mixed loads of everything and some things nobody can identify. I’ve never seen any mixed load incinerator (destruction or WTE) that has met its environmental claims. I’m also not a fan of using the term “Waste to Energy”. Isn’t it still an incinerator?
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
RE: Waste Incinerator Proposed For NELHA - james weatherford - 12-12-2007
...oops...clicked post too soon (5:20 am ...must...have...coffee...):!
Bob, thanks for the clarification.
"...29 lbs per person per week, of which 19 lbs is estimated as recyclable or can be composted."
29 total minus 19 recyclable equals 10 lbs per week equals 1.4lbs per day.
Proposed Hilo incinerator is to serve about 90,000 people x 1.4lbs/day equals 126,000 lbs/day equals about 61 tons/day.
The proposed Hilo incinerator will need 200 to 250 tons/day.
"...alternatives to incineration or landfill of material unable to be recycled or composted using commercially viable methods, but I'm not hearing them."
The Council and the Mayor have been informed (from more than one source on multiple occasions) about alternatives.
The Mayor has explicitly forbid an employee of the Department of Environmental Management from presenting her Zero Waste information to Council, and has forbid her from sharing that with anyone. She has resigned, effective this month.
"My point is WTE just shuffles the problems of solid waste from ground to air."
Exactly correct! Except, unfortunatelty, incineration also puts heavy metals into the ground and into the water, not just the air.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
RE: Waste Incinerator Proposed For NELHA - Aaron S - 12-12-2007
Low and behold, it looks like I called it right.
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/articles/2007/12/12/local_news/local02.txt