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+--- Thread: More on Homeless Native Hawaiians (/showthread.php?tid=18396)
RE: More on Homeless Native Hawaiians - geochem - 05-21-2017
quote:
Originally posted by MarkD
geochem,
1) You asked if we should “burden” the taxpayers with supporting a single racial group. Should not the Hawaiians control their trust lands (and possibly ceded lands?) for market-level profits? If there is a reason that the answer ought to be No, I am interested in hearing it. (200,000 acres trust land, 1.8 million acres ceded land)
Who do you think runs DHHL? The executive directors, or the ones I have interfaced with for the last dozen years, have all been of Hawaiian ancestry. Likewise, the Hawaiian Homes Commission, who acts as an oversight board for the Department, have, as far as I can recall from past interactions, been of Hawaiian ancestry. They are hamstrung for funds to provide infrastructure for the beneficiaries - where are those funds to come from? That is why they lease land to commercial enterprises - to generate those funds. But you seemed to suggest that the State provide them with funds - those are taxpayer monies...
In years past, there have been inappropriate uses of DHHL lands - I believe that there was a settlement made by the state a decade or more ago - for a substantial amount of money - but I frankly don't recall what role DHHL played in that. Insofar as ceded lands, the State, as successor to the territory, received those lands. I'm not at all sure that you would get much political support for turning over all ceded lands to an as yet unnamed Hawaiian entity.... Given the misfeasance and malfeasance by OHA over the years, how would you expect that to work out???
RE: More on Homeless Native Hawaiians - MarkD - 05-23-2017
I am aware that native Hawaiians heavily populate DHHL and that there have been a wide range of problems with that dept. (and OHA as well). And given this dysfunction, I understand people opposing the idea of native Hawaiians tapping more money from their lands.
But there is justification, IMO. One reason is to help keep pace with the rising living costs (from land speculation). And you appear to acknowledge that “They are hamstrung for funds to provide infrastructure for the beneficiaries...”
Native Hawaiians appear to be of mixed mind on leasing trust lands. There might have been individual parcels that should not have been leased or inadequate lease returns because of sweetheart deals. I agree the money from the trust land leases is key to funding benefits/services to Hawaiians. Regarding leasing ceded lands, I did not advocate “turning over all ceded lands...” But there might be justification for leases on some ceded lands. No doubt that many Hawaiians support this.
I am not part-Hawaiian nor do I desire to directly involve in their campaigns. I just express views here, and they relate to my stronger opinions on land speculation in Hawaii and its impacts.
Some interesting reading in UH Law Professor Chang’s 2014 paper on ceded lands. He states the state’s Leasehold Conversion Law cost Bishop Estate and other estates “billions of dollars” and he cites the role of “the richest in Honolulu---the people of Kahala, Portlock and East Honolulu...”
Chang presents a rather extreme interpretation (about 1/2 way down document). I do not know whether it stands up to veracity, but I find this comment potent: “...the leasehold system in Hawaii kept housing prices lower than under a fee system. The Estate had no interest in charging the highest rents the market could bear. Why should it do that? Why should it destabilize Honolulu? Why deny to Hawaiians, Japanese and others of modest means the ability to live in Honolulu?
Today’s big money players could not give a rip if working poor people cannot find affordable housing in Hawaii. Everything is about them, their profits.
https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/bitstream/10125/34019/1/FLS_1Oct2014.pdf
RE: More on Homeless Native Hawaiians - leilanidude - 05-23-2017
internet tourist - thanks eric!
--------
You seem to be clueless about the amount of annual cash this agency gets, despite owning and leasing all that land.
Note the amount the state was expected to provide, just for fringe benefits to DHHL employees!
http://dhhl.hawaii.gov/2016/04/04/dhhl-remains-focused-on-closing-funding-gap-for-fiscal-year-2016/
BTW, the leasehold system is a joke because they provide very few leases every year. Do you realize how long the waiting list is, despite them having thousands of properties already ready for leasing?
RE: More on Homeless Native Hawaiians - leilanidude - 05-23-2017
PS- I have read that may of these residential leases are $1 per year... Anyone know if that is true?
http://dhhl.hawaii.gov/news/
Read thru the news from DHHL themselves. Very few leases are actually awarded. Why? This agency is a joke and nothing more than a scam at this point, to keep those in power, with high paid jobs and high benefits. Why does it cost the state, $25 million a year+ to keep this agency, that also receives lease money from commercial leases?
RE: More on Homeless Native Hawaiians - MarkD - 05-23-2017
So now I'm "clueless?" You fail to read through what people write and you just keep repeating the same things. I acknowledged the deficiencies with the Hawaiian organizations several times.
It does not alter my opinion about the long-term status of native Hawaiians, with respect to lease and ceded lands. You have your view; I have mine.
You seem to have a fixation with posting disparaging replies to my statements, Leilanidude. To what end?
RE: More on Homeless Native Hawaiians - Kapoho Joe - 05-23-2017
MarkD seems to avoid the fact that the 'Native Hawaiians' he is concerned about are running DHHL and OHA. So they are screwing their own people. Just like some 'casino tribes' are doing on the mainland. Nothing new here.
RE: More on Homeless Native Hawaiians - MarkD - 05-24-2017
Again, I have heard about all the malfeasance and dysfunction for many years (as has everyone). It will have to be corrected, and I not going to pretend that I have the answers.
And I believe the Hawaiians ought to be working with the Dept. of Interior to get a status similar to that of the American Indians tribes. Not sure what they think they are going to accomplish with their sovereignty movement.
RE: More on Homeless Native Hawaiians - Eric1600 - 05-24-2017
MarkD, you'd be mistaken to think many Hawaiians are for leaving the Union.
RE: More on Homeless Native Hawaiians - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 05-24-2017
MarkD, you'd be mistaken to think many Hawaiians are for leaving the Union.
Nor is their any agreement among Native Hawaiians for any changes that might be made moving forward. There is a group known as the Kingdom of Hawaii, a separate group called the Hawaiian Kingdom, as well as various factions seeking distinct ways of self determination. Then, as Eric1600 mentioned above, there are Hawaiians who are perfectly happy with Hawaii as a state, and their role in it.
MarkD, be careful not to confuse the most vocal voices with those who are most representative.
It... lends weight to Goethe's felicitous description of architecture as 'frozen music.' ... Does this, I often wonder, make music 'defrosted architecture?' Listening to Bach's Goldberg variations as I often do on walks when motorway noise and other auditory intrusions preclude the music of silence, it strikes me that it might. - Pub Walks in Underhill Country, Nat Segnit
RE: More on Homeless Native Hawaiians - MarkD - 05-24-2017
I agree the thing is largely a mess. It would be nice to hear native Hawaiians articulate a good platform.
One thing is pretty clear: I don't think they are going to do that on Punatalk. Look at all the flack I get, and I am not Hawaiian nor am I an ardent supporter of theirs (especially the sovereignty idea). (I regard myself as a moderate supporter).
At any rate, the matter of native Hawaiians is not going away, reflected most currently in topics like the TMT debate and what to do with homeless native Hawaiians (primarily on Oahu).
(added later)
(If anyone has time I would be interested in hearing some views on Professor Chang's statement. His paper is some 20 pp. but the text in question is only about 1 page, about halfway down. His explanation of how the big money that was made in Kahala later being invested in nearby properties and then causing major price rises in real estate all the way through Kaimuku (above Waikiki) seems highly credible.
We know those price hikes occurred. I lived in Waikiki part-time for many years. Know several long-time renters forced out of Kaimuki.)