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+--- Thread: Water (hydrogen) as a gasoline substitute? NOT (/showthread.php?tid=2005)
RE: Water (hydrogen) as a gasoline substitute? NOT - JeneGreen - 07-21-2008
Hi there.. I have experienced this and it is incredible. Auto Tech 322-8881 in Kealakekua, Hawaii is manufacturing these and he is getting 20%-40% more miles per gallon and its awesome! Check it out, cause its for real and it does boost power also... and its cleaner and more efficient. He gets 51mpg to and from work (which is far!) ask for Richard or Matt. They are the techs that are making them and they are incredible. It should be illegal not to have one! Hope this helps someone!
Aloha! [
]Jene' Green
RE: Water (hydrogen) as a gasoline substitute? NOT - rbakker - 07-21-2008
Do they give money-back guarantees?
Have you truly experienced the increased mpg yourself?
Energy has to come from somewhere.
RE: Water (hydrogen) as a gasoline substitute? NOT - oink - 07-21-2008
Rob,
Do you have an update on how it is going with your friend that is (or was) trying it?
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Water (hydrogen) as a gasoline substitute? NOT - MarkP - 07-22-2008
On the most basic level, if you are generating hydrogen via hydrolysis, you will have to burn more gas to make up for the electricity draw and all else being equal the best you could hope to do is break even. This has already been pointed out. Also as already stated, it is not impossible that there could be some unique way in which the hydrogen catalyzes the combustion of the gas, resulting in increased performance beyond the BTUs present in the hydrogen itself. However, human nature being what it is, there is an overwhelmingly more likely explanation. I suppose that a willingness to believe in that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow has its positive side and I am sure that there are many examples of great advancements that have come about coincidentally with someone having "faith" in an idea, but the vast majority of good things that one sees as one looks around you today, have come about through the systematic exclusion of such emotional bias from logical analysis of problems.
There ain't no free lunch. The system described is like a perpetual motion machine. There is no logical explanation for where the extra energy is coming from, only the dropping of technowhiz buzzwords such as hydrogen. So much of what I have read so far is consistant with a salesman pushing a product and so little is consistant with a scientist explaining how something works. The story of this gizmo is completely consistant with human nature and completely inconsistant with real science. Even if the thing really works I want to go on record as saying it is crap. The scientific method of investigation has infinitely more value than getting lucky once in spite of common sense.
RE: Water (hydrogen) as a gasoline substitute? NOT - oink - 07-22-2008
quote:
Even if the thing really works I want to go on record as saying it is crap. The scientific method of investigation has infinitely more value than getting lucky once in spite of common sense.
Say what??? You would insist on ignoring the device, even if it produced valuable results, just because it doesn't fit into your "scientific method" box. That makes even less sense! I have no idea if it works, but if it does work, I'm all for it, even if I don't understand the logic. As long as I don't have to sell my soul or worship the devil I'll endorse it if it provides results. If it does work, I'm sure a scientific explanation will be found later.
So Rob, what's the latest on your friends experiment?
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Water (hydrogen) as a gasoline substitute? NOT - Rob Tucker - 07-22-2008
I haven't talked to him a while. I will try to find out how it's going.
I am not endorsing this system, just trying to keep an open mind.
One thing though: Some are saying it would take more gas to produce the electricity to fuel the hydrolysis.
I don't think that is true. I think that while a typical car engine is running it is very capable of producing
electricity in excess of it's engine needs and tapping that excess would be efficient.
Years ago I produced a system for heating hot tubs that cost about $4 a month to maintain a hot tub at 103 degrees 24 hours a day. Seemed like magic to some. It actually just used the excess (wasted) energy from a simple hot water heater. By adding a secondary heat exchanger a water heater (which is 70% efficient if it is lucky) was very capable of doing other heating tasks without much if any increase in costs. It was a matter of utilizing the excess heat production that would have otherwise gone out the exhaust pipe. Puna Geothermal, for example, has excess energy available if someone wants it.
In that vein I expect any gas combustion engine to be very capable or producing more electricity than it needs.
The proposed device, by whatever science, may in fact be able to increase efficiency. There also may be bad long term side effects which are not clearly understood. That risk is what keeps me from signing up right away. Otherwise I am usually ready to experiment or invest in new alternatives.
Punaweb moderator
RE: Water (hydrogen) as a gasoline substitute? NOT - rbakker - 07-22-2008
You're right, the excess heat could, in theory, be harnassed to get some more mpg. I think this would however be extremely difficult to do in a cost-effective manner. Car engines thankfully don't use all that much gasoline (volume-wise) and so don't produce all that much heat; the losses that would be involved trying to convert that to hydrogen would quickly wipe out any advantage.
I'm disappointed I can't find a good expose of the water-engine systems on the internet; but instead of thinking there might be something to them I suspect it's because so many variations are being offered.
Just looking at the websites offering these devices is enough to convince me, they drip of snake oil.
If someone really had constructed such an engine, I'd expect to see it announced on the front pages of the major newspapers, not on a cardboard sign by the side of the highway.
If I was a betting man I'd gladly offer 100-1 that Ford won't have this as a standard feature in their engines in 10 years time.
People don't risk your money; if there's really something to it we'll all know about it soon enough!
RE: Water (hydrogen) as a gasoline substitute? NOT - Punamom - 07-22-2008
Well I asked my genius nephew the one who knows the guy in Hawaiian Beaches thats been doing this and also powers his house with a water generator and he said that its great and works but shortens the life expectancy of the car so he would not use an expensive newer car.
RE: Water (hydrogen) as a gasoline substitute? NOT - Guest - 07-22-2008
"Shortens the life expectancy"
Huh?
By what... 20 years? [
]-------
Rally For the Plan
RE: Water (hydrogen) as a gasoline substitute? NOT - MarkP - 07-22-2008
I insist on ignoring it because it is NOT producing valid results. If there were valid results out there it would be a different story. My point has to do with the standard of proof. It is not enough that no one has proven it wrong. There are lots of quack cures for cancer out there that meet that standard.