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+--- Thread: Hawaiians angry--again: Dirt skiers on MK (/showthread.php?tid=20641)
RE: Hawaiians angry--again: Dirt skiers on MK - Guest - 02-06-2019
Mahalo for the laugh kumu snorkle. Now and in the future memory.
RE: Hawaiians angry--again: Dirt skiers on MK - ProjectDomecile - 02-06-2019
I feel like there's some factual arguments being made here, about damage and time to repair, and food carrying capacity of the island, and so on - which could actually be worked out with some research and figures, rather than hurling insults and innuendo at each other. Would anyone be interested in me putting together a research dossier? It'd probably just take me a weekend, but I don't want to spend the effort if no one would appreciate it.
I have what might be an advantage of credibility here, in that I actually don't have a preconceived notion about the island's carrying capacity; I'd just be doing the research from a tabula rasa.
RE: Hawaiians angry--again: Dirt skiers on MK - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 02-06-2019
Would anyone be interested in me putting together a research dossier?
Thanks for the offer ProjectDomicile.
The population of Hawaii now is about 1.4 million I believe, before contact in 1770 the Hawaiian population had been estimated at around 780,000. If all the non Hawaiians (blood quantum 25%? 50%? 75%? 100%?) left the island I don’t think there’s any question that those remaining could feed themselves with the available land. Instead, we’d be arguing over the subjective question, would they want to return to that lifestyle? Or whatever lifestyle is available to them without the vast input of money, jobs, assistance, social security, etc currently provided by the US federal government.
I don’t believe there’s a database, flow chart, or dossier which can answer that question. Unless the CIA has a contingency on the books for every conceivable remote possibility that could occur somewhere at sometime in the next 100 years. Real aliens landing at the Kalapana Star Sanctuary seems more likely to me than The Great Hawaiian Haole Exodus Migration of 2074.
“I think your article has been interpreted as that you were OK with dwarf-tossing.” - Sen Mazie Hirono 2/5/19, questioning the qualifications of a judicial nominee, perhaps with empathy for the Menehune, and their historical plight
RE: Hawaiians angry--again: Dirt skiers on MK - kalakoa - 02-06-2019
Big picture time, folks. Try and keep up.
Hawaii is a State.
Mauna Kea is State land, zoned for Conservation.
It's not clear that any laws were actually violated; HRS 183C defines "land use" as
(1) The placement or erection of any solid material on land;
(2) The grading, removing, harvesting, dredging, mining, or extraction of any material or natural resource on land;
(3) The subdivision of land; or
(4) The construction, reconstruction, demolition, or alteration of any structure, building, or facility on land.
To the extent that "any material" was "graded", this would be an unintentional side effect, otherwise you would have to prosecute any hiker who lost their footing.
HCC 15-22 might apply to the video that was produced:
Before any motion picture may be filmed or any television production or sound track may be made, which involves the use of professional casts, settings, or crews, by any person other than bona fide newsreel or news television personnel, written permission must first be obtained from the director.
If Red Bull didn't sponsor this video, we have something closer to "dude with a GoPro posting on YouTube". Will the County prosecute every tourist who posts video online?
Bigger issue is that "the Hawaiians" are making it crystal clear that they don't accept anyone "not from here", and they're getting full support from various official agencies.
If this is truly acceptable, then we can balance the budget by firing all these unnecessary government employees. It doesn't take manpower and paperwork to just tell people "no, Hawaii is sacred, your thing isn't allowed here."
Example: there's no need to "manage" the lands or "inspect" construction, just put up a gate. Far cheaper than funding OMKM, State LUC, etc.
RE: Hawaiians angry--again: Dirt skiers on MK - MarkP - 02-06-2019
How many years have I been hearing about skiing and sledding on Mauna Kea, seeing happy families, many Hawaiian, playing in the snow on the news? Decades. My brother sent me a "Ski Maunakea" sweatshirt more than 30 years ago.
This latest outrage is conveniently manufactured.
RE: Hawaiians angry--again: Dirt skiers on MK - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 02-06-2019
just put up a gate. Far cheaper than funding
Here’s an even cheaper method.
I saw a report today on AI in China.
If a pedestrian walks against the light or out of a crosswalk in some cities, cameras take his/her photo, within 20 seconds facial recognition identifies them, sends a ticket to their smartphone and withdraws the fine from their bank account without authorization required.
Hawaii wouldn’t even need CCTV cameras to fine lawbreakers. Have software scour YouTube (keyword: Hawaii), identify violators, ticket and fine. Residents are on file, visitors are photographed upon arrival at the airport.
Ca-ching.
“I think your article has been interpreted as that you were OK with dwarf-tossing.” - Sen Mazie Hirono 2/5/19, questioning the qualifications of a judicial nominee, perhaps with empathy for the Menehune, and their historical plight
RE: Hawaiians angry--again: Dirt skiers on MK - waawaawah - 02-06-2019
OMG! Can't we all just get along. The Aina will be here long after we are Gone! No Haiku intended
RE: Hawaiians angry--again: Dirt skiers on MK - MarkD - 02-06-2019
MarkP: How many years have I been hearing about skiing and sledding on Mauna Kea, seeing happy families, many Hawaiian, playing in the snow on the news? Decades.... This latest outrage is conveniently manufactured.
- - - -
One of the consistent sources of environmental damage is off-road vehicles. Hawaiians' acquisition of those is high.
Look at numerous road tracks damaging South Point. Ditto for many other places around the state. Oahu's Kaena Point has had a long running problem with people driving beyond boulders set up to protect sea bird habitat. In some case going out with large pry bars to move boulders. Who are the usual offenders?
Richardson's Beach Park. Every other time I go down there some moron drives their big 4-wheeler over the white rocks so they can off-load near the shoreline. And they stand by their vehicles for half an hour posturing like big shots while everyone else walks there stuff to the beach. Local custom.
Hawaiian complaints about abuse of natural resources are highly biased. Manufactured outrage indeed.
RE: Hawaiians angry--again: Dirt skiers on MK - Guest - 02-06-2019
Thats a limited test in China as of now as i understand it. And ur report may not have mentioned onw other thing. That person's face is also broadcast on large screens in the vicinity in some locations.
RE: Hawaiians angry--again: Dirt skiers on MK - Guest - 02-06-2019
quote:10-4!
Originally posted by MarkD
Hawaiian complaints about abuse of natural resources are highly biased. Manufactured outrage indeed.