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+--- Thread: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor (/showthread.php?tid=2683)
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - DickWilson - 09-20-2008
Already do that here Jay, Only shop stores who have eliminated plastic bags. Avoid buying things in blister packaging. Given your take on the environment, I'm surprised you don't support a total bag ban, yes they are convenient for some uses, but so was DDT, and they both last just about as long.[
]dick wilson
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - JWFITZ - 09-21-2008
Dick, that's commendable. There are a surprising number of people that do, and anyone can make real attempts to make real progress on their own. In fact, as far as I can see it, that's the only kind of progress that will make progress.
I would not support this bag ban for a very simple reason. I think it is completely unfair to mandate reform and burden business with new hoops of compliance unless this burden is offset in a real and measurable way by a positive environmental impact. In short, the hassle must be worth it. I don't see this bag ban as nearly approaching that metric. It may be a "step in the right direction" as some might say, but a precious tiny one. As such, the only real result that's likely to come out of the bag ban is yet a higher level of resentment among the non-environmentally conscious crowd and a higher level of resistance to actually meaningful reform. There is a serious problem, and pain in the butt regulation will often come up as the first reason people are not active or hostile to environmental concerns.
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - JWFITZ - 09-21-2008
In other words, all of us who care about the environment should be drop all these side issues and be working non-stop for a carbon consumption tax.
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - DickWilson - 09-21-2008
Jay, working with our local store, They now offer a 5 cent discount for bring in your own reusable bag and not even using their paper bags. Not a fortune, but it does help a little and reduces bitching about no plastic. I normally don't favor government interference, but I really don't see people giving up plastic grocery bags without being forced into it. Our store here now offers almost all their produce without the damn plastic wrapping. And after talking to the produce manager, they are seeing significant savings by not plastic bagging their produce. Of course we also recycle and compost so don't have much in the way of wet trash, and paper bags work for it.
dick wilson
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - dlnragent - 09-21-2008
quote:
Originally posted by Damon
quote:And can you name a particular store like that?
Originally posted by JWFITZ
If it matters that much to you, don't shop any place that supplies plastic bags.
I get plastic bags from vendors at farmers market![]
-------
Just a piece of my thinking
Abundant Life Natural Foods in Hilo.
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - Guest - 09-21-2008
If you're of the mind to ban plastic grocery bags please don't use them.
You will also want to absolutely swear off buying any consumable in plastic, i.e. ketchup, mustard, oil, water, etc.
You may even consider being an absolute non-hypocrite by logging off your computer and not get back online till they make you a hemp & barley Macintosh.
The construction of one computer involves gold, lead, tin, phenolic, paints, iron, copper PCBs and the expense to separate and recycle these things is prohibitive.
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - Bob Orts - 09-22-2008
quote:
Originally posted by Liz
I don't understand - What exactly is the objection to having this put for a vote of the people?
I was hoping somone else would chime in, alas...
Fear!
Fear that it will not pass.
Fear that they are giving the people control and not themselves.
Fear that feel good PR will be replaced with facts and raise eyebrows.
Fear that the bill will be shown as a bungling piece of cr*p.
Right now, little if any real facts about the bill and factual impact are public, it's all a sound bite. If it becomes a voter issue, people and groups will be weighing in on both sides of the aisle. So, imagine when facts turn out to be fiction and fiction is fact - and people start asking the politicians the hard questions.
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - oink - 09-22-2008
I agree with those that claim that banning the bags is just a feel good thing and does little given the bigger picture. I'm sure that in almost all cases the merchandise you put in the bag contains many times more plastic packaging that that of the bag itself. But da** I hate seeing those suckers blowing everywhere.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - Rob Tucker - 09-22-2008
Geez Bob, I am quite amazed at the passions of people over cheap, crappy plastic bags. You'd think they were invented by Moses during Biblical times and the world and souls would be lost without them.
Seems to me that they simply do more harm then good. That the world is awash in cheap crappy disposable junk and that somewhere, somehow we need to start cutting back on the simple wastefulness of it all. I can remember life before the lousy little bags came on the scene. When they hit the stores we missed the paper bags.
Things that generally make a one way trip to the landfill are a good place to start and don't bore me with the fact that one or more of you actually recycle one once in a while. Talk about feel good BS propaganda - saying you recycle one every now and then is as rationalizing a statement as I've ever heard.
I try to avoid plastic bags. Bagging trash to haul to the dump is one of the dumbest things I see going on. Nothing quite like preserving your garbage for future generations. I know for a fact that trash cans with lids work just as well now as they did fifty years ago - before Madison Avenue trained us to buy things to throw away.
RE: Bill 326: a ban on plastic bags - Acting Mayor - hikatz - 09-22-2008
I never use to recycle, since being back in Hilo I am concerned with the environment, what is going into the landfill. I try to recycle everything, and try not to use chemicals ect. But we are a minority on this island, the problem with making the decision to ban plastic bags, without people voting on this, will increase the anger of the local population about mainland people moving here, changing things! There is enough tension here already, try listening to Myna Bird KHBC 1060am or 92.1fm 5:30-10:00am when local issues are being discussed, it gets hot! The attitude is, if the haoles don't like it, then go back to where you come from. My husband is from Hilo, and I have lived here over 20 years, I try to see both sides of the issues, if the council overturns this decision, without the public, voting on this,(forget about hearings, you know how few people turn out) watch the backlash from this decision. You think dumping is bad now, just wait!