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+--- Thread: Public Statement on U.S. militarism & occupation (/showthread.php?tid=8515)
RE: Public Statement on U.S. militarism & occupation - MarkP - 02-12-2011
I consider the occupation of Hawaii to have begun when Kamehameha the Great completed his war of occupation and conquest across the Hawaiian chain, at the latest. Remember he had to kill lots of people to "unify" them. In fact there were numerous chieftainships across Hawaii, all based on the philosophy that might makes right. Is the US the latest? Yes. Is the US the first? Not by a long shot. Kamehameha was not even the first, so who ya gonna pick to give the land back to?
From the website Mythichawaii.com:
"After 28 years of campaigning, Kamehameha now ruled all the islands of Hawaii. Governing from Oahu, he issued the famous Mamalahoe Kanawai or Law of the Splintered Paddle, which decreed that old men and women and children should not be subjected to wanton attacks, and passed a series of laws against murder, theft and plundering. Conquered lands were divided among his high chieftains in widely dispersed parcels to minimize the risk of rebellion. In 1812, he took a final tour of his kingdom and then settled at Kailua-Kona, where he mixed avid sport fishing with statecraft until his death in 1819."
There were 17 paragraphs prior to this, each a stomach churning account of violent turf wars between the ali'i, many of whom were related to each other as they tried to kill each other. Ahh, the good old days....
RE: Public Statement on U.S. militarism & occupation - abe - 02-12-2011
yeah silver penny i agree with that. just a question, what did you mean by NOT the people. i will assume you mean the "higher ups." also, i believe mauna loa and mauna kea as to be kept sacred but i am kinda still for the astronomy centers. i saw a shirt once that said, "before you go looking into space, make sure you malama this place." i agree. as far as training up there, no thanks. look at what america did to the lakota's sacred black hills. aloha.
RE: Public Statement on U.S. militarism & occupation - PaulW - 02-12-2011
"If you do proper research you will see that 90% of the Hawaiian people voted against statehood."
How do you determine who is "Hawaiian"? DNA sample? Do you only include the people without a drop of pre-1778 blood in them?After 180 years of contact, there would not have been many. And even if you could, how can anyone know for sure who voted for what, the referendum was a secret ballot.
The only thing known for sure is that on the island of Ni’ihau, which was entirely native Hawaiian, 20% voted Yes for Statehood.
So show me your "proper research". Reputable websites only please.
RE: Public Statement on U.S. militarism & occupation - Menehune - 02-12-2011
quote:
Originally posted by DanielP
We are all just borrowing Menehune land.
E ‘olu‘olu ‘oe Malama 'aina!
RE: Public Statement on U.S. militarism & occupation - Orchidlandguy - 02-12-2011
quote:Again another personal attack from mdd7000.
Originally posted by mdd7000
All cattle ranchers, such as silverpenny, should give their stolen land back to the Hawaiian people first, as a gesture of goodwill.
Way off topic and as usual attacking another member.
RE: Public Statement on U.S. militarism & occupation - Orchidlandguy - 02-12-2011
quote:This has nothing to do with this topic. BAITING.
Originally posted by mdd7000
Are you denying that you are a cattle rancher?
RE: Public Statement on U.S. militarism & occupation - Orchidlandguy - 02-12-2011
quote:
Originally posted by mdd7000
[quote]
Another newbie, trying hard to stir things up. Go for it, dugger...
another attack on new posters at punaweb by mdd7000.
What a welcoming guy, huh?
Glad to have you aboard, dugger. Most folks on punaweb will welcome you.
RE: Public Statement on U.S. militarism & occupation - Rob Tucker - 02-12-2011
Orchidlandguy, If you have concerns you can report them directly to me. I don't need or require volunteer vigilante moderators.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
RE: Public Statement on U.S. militarism & occupation - Orchidlandguy - 02-12-2011
quote:
Originally posted by dugger
I do feel a right to say my feelings about Hawaii just as I felt a right during the civil rights struggle to talk about people of color and the right to speak out against the US treatment of Native Americans.
To say that Kamehameha was an occupier of Hawaii is just plain ridiculous. Hawaii was a sovereign nation and that is where the discussion needs to begin. The right to own HHL land is determined by ancestry with the stipulation of 50% Hawaiian blood. This is all common knowledge and it astounds me it is questioned. So be it.
The story about 90% of Hawaiians voting against statehood is also well documented in a 1959 or 1960 article in the Star Advertiser which was recently republished. If you are really interested do your own research.
To say no one was hurt or killed from Chernobyl or Three Mile Island is equally absurd. Again the casualties around Chernobyl and Three Mile Island that followed years later in the form of obscure cancers and diseases are quite well known. Remember that we are on an island and have nowhere to run. Our land would be devastated and uninhabitable. The Hawaiian people have been very clear about how they feel about Nukes here.
Whether actual sovereignty is possible or not is moot. The facts of how the Hawaiian Nation was stolen are undeniable. Personally I would be very happy if it were to revert to Hawaiian rule. If I were asked to leave, so be it. But I don't think that would be the outcome. These are serious issues and should be discussed and understood by those living here. The fact that a sovereign nation was literally stolen by American interests should never be taken for granted.
YOU ARE SO RIGHT ON.
I am very glad you have started posting here on punaweb. Very articulate and well thought out. I can't put my thoughts down worth beans, and suffer the consequences here on punaweb. There are a gang of bullies here that will stop at nothing to twist your worda and lie about you. Once confronted they either stop posting on the thread or they continue to state their lies. Watch out for the attackers, but know there are many of us who support your voice and views and I sincerely welcome you to punaweb.
RE: Public Statement on U.S. militarism & occupation - PaulW - 02-12-2011
Just saying something is "well-documented" does not make it so. If it's so well-documented, provide the link.
I can't find any article supporting your statement that 90% of Native Hawaiians voted against statehood.
Seeing as 94% of the Hawaii residents (who voted) voted for statehood, which is an indisputable fact, then the 90% number becomes extremely unlikely. It's also impossible to prove because the ballot is secret.
If deaths from Three Mile Island are so "well-documented" then let's see a link. That reality is that there was not a single death. This is because there was hardly any radiation. Here's a quote from wikipedia on the subject:
"The average radiation dose to people living within ten miles of the plant was eight millirem, and no more than 100 millirem to any single individual. Eight millirem is about equal to a chest X-ray, and 100 millirem is about a third of the average background level of radiation received by US residents in a year."[37][57]
[...]A variety of studies have been unable to conclude that the accident had substantial health effects.