+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Building in Puna (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=12)
+--- Thread: Building with No Permit? (/showthread.php?tid=9787)
RE: Building with No Permit? - seasidebob - 02-05-2012
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker...
12,000 sf house too. Always amazes me how someone will build something like a 12,000 sf house and cut corners.
I do not get that either. Probably 50 cent per SF cheaper flooring would have paid for the more expensive piping.
RE: Building with No Permit? - Carey - 02-05-2012
Chicago was in the forefront of building codes BECAUSE of the devastation of the great fire, & the populace was requesting (demanding) it... not because anyone believed that the code itself would make everything all better... Codes do set a community standard, one that the community does set (believe it or not, most everyone here does have the choice & chance voice their concerns for things like the building code to people we VOTE into office....) Very few municipalities vote in a building code carte blanc... those changes they make are ones that community members have had a voice in, if your voice was not taken into consideration... then it is up to you....
When I worked for UL, it was amazing how certain municipalities passed building code upgrades & more stringent regulations AFTER a major incident happened within their jurisdiction...
in the end, you can only do what you can do... but to use the house of cards as any example of acceptable, good, or 'best anyone could build for their money' building is not something I think would be at the top of anyones list ... but some posters here must think that it is...
If you do not like the codes, voice your concerns, but have well researched, documented reasons to back up your concerns....and it really helps to have a number of other well reasoned members of the community backing you.... a well researched & reasoned argument that is backed documentation & by the community at large.... believe it or not, that works for most of the people, even in our local government.
RE: Building with No Permit? - durian - 02-05-2012
Watched a documentary film from 1929 last week called "Nanook of the North".
http://www.youtube.com/movie?v=kaDVovGjNOc&ob=av1n&feature=mv_sr
During the filming a man builds an unpermitted dwelling out of uncertified materials without a licensed contractor or plumber. His wife and children sleep in the said structure. Some of you in this thread may not want to watch... the images may stir up anger, fear and indignation.
RE: Building with No Permit? - Seeb - 02-06-2012
?
RE: Building with No Permit? - Carey - 02-06-2012
In regards to the 1922 film 'Nanook of the North':
"The film is considered the first feature-length documentary, though Flaherty has been criticized for staging several sequences and thereby distorting the reality of his subjects' lives" ( "Essay by Dean W. Duncan". Criterion Collection http://www.criterion.com/films/574-nanook-of-the-north)
Even IF the house building was not staged (though that has been debated), most likely Nanook was not that close to any of his Inuk neighbors, he probably did not consider reselling the structure, insurance or financing, and if fire, storms, flooding or the like came, he & his family were totally SOL...
It is interesting how a poster can take a thread where the OP was requesting pros/cons of building HERE in Hawaii County without a permit & compare it with building in the Arctic Circle...in 1922. in a silent movie. maybe not even REAL life...
RE: Building with No Permit? - Rob Tucker - 02-06-2012
Yeah, it is interesting isn't it....
RE: Building with No Permit? - durian - 02-06-2012
Building your own house is an event with heart and feeling. Nanook's real or unreal igloo is built with the same feeling of joy and self-reliance that many Puna folks feel. People in this thread have mentioned Chicago without exciting negative feedback, so why not the Arctic? Many people in many countries up to the present day (in colour and with sound) are building safe unpermitted homes for their families. It is strange that one even needs to remind others of this.
Lets face the facts, people who cry about unpermitted buildings are usually only concerned about the decreased value of the houses in the neighborhood, ie: their own house. They can't borrow as much money when their house is worth less.
RE: Building with No Permit? - Kapohocat - 02-07-2012
quote:
Originally posted by Carey...
If you do not like the codes, voice your concerns, but have well researched, documented reasons to back up your concerns....and it really helps to have a number of other well reasoned members of the community backing you.... a well researched & reasoned argument that is backed documentation & by the community at large.... believe it or not, that works for most of the people, even in our local government.
In regards to our building codes, many well seasoned members of the building community - architects/draftspeople/licensed contractors did express their well researched and reasonable concerns .. to no avail it seems.
Even I, located between layman and expert, can see the glaring stupidity of the code approved by the county council last week.
RE: Building with No Permit? - Carey - 02-07-2012
Cat - this should be in the New Building Codes discussion - Our county can enforce more restrictive than the state, did any of the building community that you refer to go to the state meetings prior to their decision (esp. to work on the draft committee) & have any of them provided testimony to the ICC? these are the two most effective routes to get less restrictive initial codes ...but with any less restrictive codes, there is always the HLV & actuarial values of actions vs. inactions.... a complicated science & one that there may never be a utopian answer....
And it will probably take years to change some of the knee jerk recommendations (it took years to get that stupid 'safe room' in, and the press reports on those rooms after a couple of horrendous storms, to sway the commission... ) and to remember that, as an international committee, they have gotten testimony from more than just one county (or state, or country)...& are trying to evaluate a code that can ensure public health & safety on an international scale...
Some things like whether we are in a hurricane building zone & should build all houses to that standard may seem daffy, but then you look at the south Florida devastation after Andrew & the media frenzy that happened over the structure damage & you get an idea of some of it... remember also that it was not just an issue of a structure failure, but what happens to the area surrounding a structure failure, some of the loss of life & structure damage was caused by the flying debris (air borne 2x4s, roofing & wall sections) of a structure failure hitting other (non-failing) structures
I also do know that permits here do not mean anything as far as how well a structure is built... and in some cases only show how well connected some one was to get away with stuff....
If you look at my posts in this, I am not for or against the codes, but have been involved in the past on establishing some of the test protocol on structure failures, & have given testimony to the IPCC & ICC.
To the OP, I am just saying if you are not getting a permit, you better know your neighbors & get along with them, and anyone moving into an older established neighborhood has very little say here... including being either for or against permitted structures in your neighborhood.
RE: Building with No Permit? - Kapohocat - 02-09-2012
quote:
Originally posted by Carey
Cat - this should be in the New Building Codes discussion - Our county can enforce more restrictive than the state, did any of the building community that you refer to go to the state meetings prior to their decision (esp. to work on the draft committee) & have any of them provided testimony to the ICC? these are the two most effective routes to get less restrictive initial codes ...but with any less restrictive codes, there is always the HLV & actuarial values of actions vs. inactions.... a complicated science & one that there may never be a utopian answer....
They all went to meeting after meeting after meeting, before it ever got to the council for approval. There was a committee that worked on them with meeting after meeting after meeting.
So the answer is yes, the building industry did participate. The building industry professionals were largely ignored.
Just like (some) architects couldn't design a outhouse that would stand up to a 10 mph wind, the committee ignored the design and building professionals.
I did not ever voice my opinion as there were people with 100x the design and build hands on experience speaking up.
Personally, I am about ready to go into party planning - bridezillas are going to be a whole lot easier to deal with.