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+--- Thread: Discoveries using the telescopes on Mauna Kea (/showthread.php?tid=17412)
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RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - TomK - 04-12-2017
Really quick astronomy lesson. There are "double stars" and there are "binary stars". Double stars are just stars that look to be close together but could be hundreds of light years apart and have no connection to each other. They just look close from our perspective.
Binary stars, on the other hand, are extremely common, and in fact, most stars in the Galaxy are binaries, it's just that often their companions are so close to the other star or too faint for us to see. There are even triple or quadruple star systems. Our sun is quite unusual in that it does not appear to have a companion star. This might be to our benefit, as life may not have been able to form here if there was one.
I don't know which Pluto documentary you saw, but using old technology in spacecraft is normal. Even the space shuttle, when it was still operating, used 1980s technology in its computers. The reason being that you don't want to spend billions of dollars sending something into space using technology that hasn't been thoroughly tested before. It'll cost billions of dollars more to go up there and fix the problem when it fails, and in the case of the Hubble's successor (the JWST), will be beyond our reach anyway.
This is one of the major advantages of ground-based telescopes like those on Mauna Kea. You can test new technologies, but if something goes wrong you don't have to call NASA. You send up your engineers, technicians and scientists to fix the problems and they can go back home in the evenings.
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 04-17-2017
Here's a new Mauna Kea video, part of the Skyglow Project which captures some of the remaining dark sky locations in North America:
http://gizmodo.com/check-out-this-mesmerizing-timelapse-of-the-night-sky-a-1794390773
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - TomK - 04-17-2017
Gorgeous. Thanks, HOTPE.
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - Kenney - 04-17-2017
Breathtakingly beautiful!
Mahalo.
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - mermaid53 - 04-17-2017
quote:Mahalo for taking the time for the "quick astronomy lesson" Tom. [
Originally posted by TomK
Really quick astronomy lesson. There are "double stars" and there are "binary stars". Double stars are just stars that look to be close together but could be hundreds of light years apart and have no connection to each other. They just look close from our perspective.
Binary stars, on the other hand, are extremely common, and in fact, most stars in the Galaxy are binaries, it's just that often their companions are so close to the other star or too faint for us to see. There are even triple or quadruple star systems. Our sun is quite unusual in that it does not appear to have a companion star. This might be to our benefit, as life may not have been able to form here if there was one.
I don't know which Pluto documentary you saw, but using old technology in spacecraft is normal. Even the space shuttle, when it was still operating, used 1980s technology in its computers. The reason being that you don't want to spend billions of dollars sending something into space using technology that hasn't been thoroughly tested before. It'll cost billions of dollars more to go up there and fix the problem when it fails, and in the case of the Hubble's successor (the JWST), will be beyond our reach anyway.
This is one of the major advantages of ground-based telescopes like those on Mauna Kea. You can test new technologies, but if something goes wrong you don't have to call NASA. You send up your engineers, technicians and scientists to fix the problems and they can go back home in the evenings.
]I do recall the Pluto Mission documentary stating that they wanted to follow what was tried and true for this important mission which makes logical sense. There was a temp problem on this mission..if I recall it was a loss of communication I believe as it neared Pluto and the possibility of not getting photos. The issue was resolved of course but they were on pins and needles at the time.
I saw a preview for an upcoming documentary on the Science chnl..."the sun's distant twin"...something to that description.
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - TomK - 04-17-2017
Yes, the New Horizons probe briefly lost contact as it was approaching Pluto but did what it was designed to do and rebooted itself into safe mode and re-established communications. I can't recall if NASA ever found the cause of the problem, but after a short panic, they got it back into full operation.
As for the documentary you mention, I don't get the science channel and know nothing about the documentary, but my guess is that it has nothing to do with a companion star of the sun. I suspect it's more to do with studying stars just like the sun (something most of the telescopes on MK do occasionally) to try and understand what our sun was like earlier in its life and what will likely happen in the future. We're pretty certain from theory what will happen to it in general, but you want to be able to confirm that from observations, and observing stars like our sun is really the only way to do that.
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - mermaid53 - 04-17-2017
Appreciate your sharing your knowledge about the Cosmos Tom.
HOTPE Mahalo for sharing the Mauna Kea video...so spectacular and beautiful...
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - TomK - 04-18-2017
A couple of other MK-related discoveries to report:
"Supermassive black holes found in two tiny galaxies"
The galaxies are "ultra-compact dwarf galaxies", tiny but very dense galaxies that were only discovered a couple of decades ago but contain something like a 100 million stars. Their diameter (100-200 light years) is even smaller than what's known as the solar neighborhood. The diameter of our Galaxy is 100,000 light years. The surprising news is that even these minute galaxies contain super-massive black holes at the center, something that really wasn't expected. The observations were carried out using the Gemini North telescope.
https://phys.org/news/2017-04-supermassive-black-holes-tiny-galaxies.html
"Massive exoplanet discovered using gravitational microlensing method"
Another discovery of a large Jupiter-like exoplanet orbiting another star using gravitational microlensing. The MK telescopes involved were UKIRT, the CFHT and the Keck II.
https://phys.org/news/2017-04-massive-exoplanet-gravitational-microlensing-method.html
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - TomK - 04-19-2017
I hope Rob forgives me for something not really Hawaii related, but couldn't help myself.
"How not to make astronomy interesting to anyone else"
This is recent research about Keplerian disks. These are basically disks of gas and dust that are often seen around young stars. The disks typically obey the physical laws Kepler and Newton came up with and they're where planets form. Then it becomes much less interesting:
"In the project, the authors suppose that Keplerian flow breaks into a turbulent state at the Reynolds number not yet attained in the research. As turbulence cannot exist in the absence of growing perturbations of velocity and pressure, they consider in detail how large the growth factor of transiently growing perturbations can be. Generally, those perturbations arise in the form of spirals being unwound by the differential rotation of the bulk flow.
Viacheslav Zhuravlev says, "We've managed to show for the first time that such perturbations are able to sustain turbulence also at scales significantly exceeding the disc thickness. Additionally, we predict a value of the Reynolds number corresponding to transition to turbulence both in Keplerian and super-Keplerian flows."
The researchers have been solving the linearised Navier-Stokes equations both numerically and analytically. Moreover, for the first time in astrophysical scientific literature, they have employed a so-called variational approach in order to determine the optimal perturbations that demonstrate the highest possible growth of amplitude."
https://phys.org/news/2017-04-scientists-problem-hydrodynamic-stability-keplerian.html
I'm not certain, but I think what they are saying is that they may be coming up with an idea about how planets may form around young stars.
RE: Discoveries by the telescopes on Mauna Kea - Guest - 04-27-2017
I hope this type of thinking out loud and asking of questions on a forum does not offend to many. Instead I hope it brings Ideas, opinions and possibly some common ground.
Mauna Wakea has become the current astronomy capital of the world, True or False?
Are the dozen or more telescopes currently atop Mauna Wakea being used for specific scientific purposes, Profit and Fun, or both?
What Would the billion dollar plus TMT project really be used for if it is indeed built on Mauna Wakea, Science, profit or fun?
I ask these type of Questions because some recent articles regarding some of the worlds largest telescopes seem to be contradicting and confusing at times.
For instance this article I post below states large telescopes bring high operating costs and no profits. Yet, Aren't the many Big Island Resorts and Hilo's Arnott's profiting from the current Telescopes atop Mauna Kea?
Does the Telescopes get a piece of the hundreds of tours money?
Don't they also sell telescope time to Universities like Yale or Harvard for millions?
http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/blog/2015/07/astronomy-high-costs-and-no-profit-but-benefits.html
Yet, another recent article regarding a very large telescope built in China states it aims to find aliens and bring in large profits with plenty of fun for tourists. China, is one of the strongest partners in this long planned-rubber stamped TMT project that may be built on Mauna wakea.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2016-09/26/content_26893594.htm
Anybody know what happened to the many thousands of Chinese people that were relocated or forced to move from China's giant telescopes current location? I can only hope the many people relocated or moved were fairly compensated or provided a better life elsewhere. For some reason I doubt the Chinese government and their intentions today. jmo.
Some are trying to sell this Tmt project as a non-profit making, job creating, planet and star finding, local educational savior that may answer today's unimaginable. Yet, I am afraid of the bait and switch technique that could make this TMT project a large profit maker for a few in the state of Hawaii but also countries like China and India too.
This bait and switch technique could be at the expense of the "still unrecognized or respected" remaining Hawaiians. I believe that if the billion dollar TMT project is built on the Hawaiians sacred Mountain of Mauna wakea, for profit making purposes. It may be the final dagger to the Kanaka Hawaiians race, their culture and traditions in many ways. The continued stealing or Selling cheap of yesterdays, today's and tomorrows Hawaiians land is not only disrespectful but very conniving. Especially, after all the many Hawaiians have shared and sacrificed over time. To me The many Telescopes atop Mauna Kea have helped rediscover the pride, Aloha and nation of the Hawaiian people. jmo's
P.S. To my number 1 fan PaulW. If the TMT needs millions worth of water, electricity and land then Maybe Island residents should have access to the use of their limited resources like Water, electricity and mountain tops too.
I had only suggested the possibility of a Ski resort or two atop Mauna Kea in the past As a way to provide a few more local jobs and opportunities for Hawaiians and local residents than what the TMT project had promised.
When It does snow on the mountains of Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa hundreds of local residents want access to it and lately it's getting harder to come by. Maybe It should be a bigger priority to help clear the roads just after snow storms to help allow the locals access, like it's maintained for astronomers when they want or need the summit. This type of an all day traffic jam should not happen again.
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2016/12/04/cars-in-search-of-snow-crowd-mauna-loa-road/
Pretty sure that vast amounts of quality snow could be made for most skiing, snow boarding and family entertainment on most nights throughout the year atop Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa. Local residents, astronomers, and tourists could experience and enjoy this snow making effort at times.
If the once "Kapu" times of the sacred summit of Mauna Wakea are truly over, then Why should the summit of Mauna WaKea be solely developed into an astronomers or tourism made Disneyland? Afraid that The TMT's tour rates that may be offered from our many resorts may price out the majority of our local Island residents.
Also, Maybe dozens of local food trucks should also be considered or allowed somewhere near or on Mauna Kea instead of the resorts or TMT's choice of foods for the "millions" who will come once the TMT is built. jmo's