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+--- Thread: HPP road maintainence (/showthread.php?tid=17721)
RE: HPP road maintainence - kalakoa - 01-25-2017
No reason a SUP for mailboxes should take more than a month
SUP requires citizen input.
I would not want to battle the crowds at a centralized location with 1000 or more boxes
Presto, grounds for SUP denial.
How clever of the, umm, Board, to create this new distraction.
RE: HPP road maintainence - msky - 01-25-2017
quote:
Originally posted by mermaid53
[quote]Originally posted by My 2 cents
I'm thinking that you meant to multiply $150 by 6,000 not 600, which would alter things drastically in your scenario. Or you could explain what the 600 number represents....
..................................
Sorry, I used 600 as a minimum starting point. I believe I read that the vote needed 600 owners to pass.So I used 600 x $150. I would hope the Association would do the math after figuring out the cost of such a venture and how many willing owners it would take to make it happen.
RE: HPP road maintainence - msky - 01-25-2017
quote:
Originally posted by mermaid53
$150 x 8,770 lots (correct amt of lots) = $1,315,500.
I was told the # of lots that I originally posted here based on someone else's figures was incorrect.
That the correct # is 8,835 lots. Maybe msky can confirm???
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There were 8835 original lots. A few have been consolidated and even fewer have been "condo-ized" aka "subdivided". I forgot (already) how many lots there were when I left, but 8800 sounds pretty close. But it is HIGHLY unlikely 100% will pay the assessment. We could never get 100% to pay their road fee even at the $275 we charged when I "left".
RE: HPP road maintainence - leilanidude - 01-25-2017
I would not want to battle the crowds at a centralized location with 1000 or more boxes, based on the the traffic jams created by 200...
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Stop in at the Pahoa Post Office where they have 2,000 boxes and parking for 20. Considering most of the people are there to buy stamps and mail out parcels, its a pleasant experience. Thanksgiving to Christmas can be challenging during office hours, but that is the extent of it.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Johnd - 01-25-2017
quote:yes, you did. The County did not promise anything in writing, but our bylaws spell exactly how the fees are to be used and what is the function of the board. HPP is private property,property is sold and bought under the clear assumption that folks would have roads built and maintained with the fees they pay for.
Originally posted by kalakoa
Isn't blatantly clear that the bylaws are not protecting us against mismanagement and abuse of power? What makes us think that new blood in the Board will fix these problems?
That's what I've been saying all along, but I don't own/live in HPP and therefore my opinions are moot, right?
Then again: everyone who lives in HPP moved there voluntarily and therefore accepts without limitation any and all mismanagement resulting in expensive non-maintenance, and HPP continues to grow at a fantastic rate despite these limitations.
As an extra added bonus, HPP board mismanagement is completely compatible with County mismanagement, such that nobody notices the difference, overall results are the same, so the mismanagement is obviously acceptable, except for those who complain endlessly on a pseudonymous internet thread, somehow without ever taking any substantive action to address the problems.
Did I miss anything?
jdo
RE: HPP road maintainence - kalakoa - 01-25-2017
County did not promise anything in writing
Other than "developer shall pave roads prior to final subdivision plat approval".
our bylaws spell exactly how the fees are to be used and what is the function of the board
Which is currently working out no better than the above.
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 01-25-2017
quote:Which is why there's a Bylaw Committee cinching up those loops and making the laws more black and white. Many of our current issues are bc of these gray areas that need more precise language.
Originally posted by kalakoa
County did not promise anything in writing
Other than "developer shall pave roads prior to final subdivision plat approval".
our bylaws spell exactly how the fees are to be used and what is the function of the board
Which is currently working out no better than the above.
There are still openings on the BLC for members who want to join the BLC in their efforts to make our bylaws work for the membership.
The bylaws are the foundation of HPP's governance and it definitely needs improvement as was witnessed starting in Jul 2014... which is why this committee was formed.
RE: HPP road maintainence - caveat emptor - 01-25-2017
One of the items, that has been mentioned a few times now, that was found in your road maintenance billing envelope was a 1/3 page announcement that started out by claiming that a board in 2012 approved a Special Extra Burden Road Maintenance Assessment.
The June 15, 2016 BOD meeting is the actual date when the board passed the Extra Burden fee we received in the mail with the road maintenance bill. The board in 2012 never approved such a fee. Importantly, it is completely different from what the 2013 – 2014 fiscal year Finance Committee approved and from what the 2014 board passed (I have a copy) and Jo Maynard knows this because, as we should all remember from previous posts, she was at Finance committee meetings in 2015 that discussed the prior finance committees original work on the extra burden fee schedule. She also has a copy of thatr fee schedule, it is nothing like what we just received in the mail.
What possible purpose could there be in deceiving the members when the truth of the matter is so very easy to discover? Maybe they anticipated a hostile response and possible legal action and thought by blaming another board they could be exonerated. What ever the reason, it is sooo Jo. Please obie, don’t make a nonsense defense of your friend by claiming that “maybe the board made a mistake with the date”. Incompetence with such an important matter is not a defense.
Below is the link for that BOD meeting in June 2016 and take note of the schedule in the minutes with what you have in your hand; I think I spotted 3 differences between the online approved version and the version in the mail. Now, maybe THAT is simply incompetence obie, but with out a doubt it is fodder for attorneys. I would not be surprised if legal action against the association is not far behind.
http://www.hppoa.net/minutes-motion-logs/board-of-directors-minutes/approved-hpp-bod-6-15-16/
Here is a list of events for the extra burden fee schedule according to the board meeting minutes on the HPPOA website.
Jan. 19, 2012 board reviewed a potential road fee increase for lots with special permits.
Feb. 15, 2012 board voted to create a Membership Committee at the Feb. Members Meeting.
Feb. 26, 2012 Membership Meeting: “Increase in fees for lots with special permits – June Conant noted that the original bylaws and those of 2001 allow for an increase in fees for those lots whose enterprises cause a steady increase in traffic. She asked Members to sign up to help form a committee to address this issue.”
Mar. 21, 2012 board meeting: a member’s sign up sheet was circulated to members.
Mar. 19, 2014 board presented a fee schedule for road maintenance assessments for business activities that add traffic burden and which passed unanimously.
June 15, 2016 BOD meeting the Treasurer, Janice Ashford commented that the Finance Committee came up with the fee schedule that the board passed at that meeting. Here’s the problem with that claim. That was not the real finance committee (as has been commented on several times before) and to make matters worse, this FC had their so called meetings in secret without any public access or knowledge of the meetings. That not only is a violation of the bylaws, but of state law. Nothing new for that crew though. Do you want to know who made up this illegal committee? Janice Ashford, Jo Maynard, Bridgett Haley (who works in the office now) and one other association member.
Take another look at what the 2012 board thought was prudent and good management, they wanted the association members involved.
RE: HPP road maintainence - reni - 01-25-2017
"Which is why there's a Bylaw Committee cinching up those loops and making the laws more black and white. Many of our current issues are bc of these gray areas that need more precise language."
M, how can you continue to remain optimistic about cleaning up the vague areas of our by-laws, like that will make a difference, fix things, when our volunteer boards can't or won't even follow the laws that are as plain as day?
It's just all so nuts to go on like this. WE NEED PROFESSIONAL MANAGEMENT.....FOR THE REASON OUR ASSOC. EXISTS..... OUR ROADS. You have given so much of your energy towards making things right but this is just nuts!! I doubt this board has the legal right to assess us for p.o. boxes but it's like, who cares about the law any more in this society????? 3 of us????
$150.00 per owner will mushroom into what? and the cluster continues.
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 01-25-2017
Here's the 15 Jun 2016 Board minutes....compare your insert w/your bill on extra burden road maint fees with %'s passed at the mtg. At what board mtg did the board make the increases from what was passed at the Jun 2016 board mtg?
The Finance committee also discussed setting categories for the “Special Extra Burden Road Maintenance Fees.”
A Breakdown Sheet was distributed in the Board packets, which shows the road burden fee percentage recommended to the board. These fees would go into effect January 1, 2017, and are added to the regular annual road maintenance fee. A letter needs to go out from the office to all the businesses listed to let them know about the upcoming extra fee so that they can prepare ahead of time for the extra costs. A special grouping can be made in the accounting software for each burden category along with special built in invoicing for each category to help simplify the year-end process of billing the road fess and extra road fees.
The categories are:
o Contractors – under 6000 lbs., vehicle use - @50% extra fee
o Contractors – over 6000 lbs., vehicle use - @100% extra fee
o Commercial Vehicle with a PUC - @100% extra fee
o Auto Repair Companies - @50% extra fee
o Heavy Equipment Companies - @100% extra fee
o Daycares/Schools - @ $3.00 per student/per month extra fee
o Farms/Nurseries/Ag Businesses - @75% extra fee
o B&B/Vacation Rentals - @50% extra fee
o Churches@25% extra fee
o Adult Care Facilities - $3.00 per patient/per month extra fee
o All other with Special Use Permits - @50% extra fee
Janice Ashford (District 7) moved for the board to accept the “Extra Burden Road Maintenance Fee Schedule” attached with the Fee percentages to be charged to the associated businesses in these categories. Jo Maynard (District 5) seconded the motion.
Discussion: Affects all business operators if they own and have a Special Use Permit. It won’t apply to Fed Ex or UPS trucks coming and going daily. Daycare schools and adult care facilities, populations change. Day care and adult care are going to have big student and patient fluctuation, so they can pay monthly. A discussion of various examples of pro and con scenarios of people who would be affected was discussed along with the value of pursuing this course. They hope there will be finger pointers to let them know of others. This is being proposed to try and get a handle on the people tearing up our roads. Schools are by volume. This was already approved by a previous board. B&B fee schedule was suggested lowered to 25%.
They omitted it was Dist 5 rep, Maynard, who hoped for "finger pointers". I heard it first hand.
Janice Ashford (District 7) moved to amend her motion to follow the fee schedule with change of vacation rental to 25%. Paul Wheeless (District 3) seconded the motion. Vote: Yes-5. Unanimous. Motion carried.