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+--- Thread: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition (/showthread.php?tid=15831)
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Wao nahele kane - 05-16-2015
To hold Humanities advancement in understanding hostage in hopes to gain recognition of ones beliefs is simple extortion and far be extortion an exercise of integrity, honor or credibility.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Wao nahele kane - 05-16-2015
"So please, because you could be influential in your way, understand it. For all of our sake."
Dakine,
You assume it is not understood by Tom in the context that he does not recognize the said position and what it means but in fact his non-understanding is more likely based in the context of not understanding what those positions have to do reality, fact and truth. Why should those things hold hostage humanities furthered understanding?
Many of us do not understand why beliefs not grounded in facts should supersede humanities advancements in Facts, Reality and further gathered Truths. Why should the beliefs of those who have long since past who's understandings were not steeped in facts but rather superstitions and very limited understandings be considered today in the here and now? Such beliefs only serve to handicap furthered factual understandings. Where do such fables have a place in humanities existence? Their place is in books to serve as a record of where we once were so we can better understand how much further we have advanced in understanding since such times. Such fables have no place in impeding our furthered understandings. Pulling them out of the closet to shake about as testimony in protest is hopelessly ignorant.
And here I'll quote you Dakine and ask that you consider it a request of yourself.
"So please, because you could be influential in your way, understand it. For all of our sake."
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - PaulW - 05-16-2015
That's plain speaking right there. Good. So, what does a telescope have to do with the overthrow of a kingdom over 100 years ago?
PS Please stick to facts and avoid beliefs
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Rob Tucker - 05-16-2015
So how does a country reverse history and "make it right"? And who does the USA make it right to precisely?
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - MarkP - 05-16-2015
If Kane and others appear to be rambling it is because they are trying to address the convoluted mishmash freely offered by the anti-TMT crowd as justification for their stance. If it is not about the water table, don't mention the water table.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - punaticbychoice - 05-16-2015
HOTPE@ 7:08:40-
Hypatia, a scholar, a thinker, scientist, and a keeper of human knowledge and a woman.
Murdered (flayed by clam shells) at the behest of "Saint" John Chrysostom the new Christian
Civil power of Emperor Constantine and successors in Alexandria.
Please support separation of "church" and "state".
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - leilanidude - 05-16-2015
quote:Exactly. Why stop with Hawaii? How about all of those other countries over the last couple hundred years? Maybe since the dawn of mankind? It just won't happen.
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
So how does a country reverse history and "make it right"? And who does the USA make it right to precisely?
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 05-16-2015
quote:Just taking a guess at this question, PaulW, the TMT will be built on "Ceded" Lands/Crown Lands.
Originally posted by PaulW
That's plain speaking right there. Good. So, what does a telescope have to do with the overthrow of a kingdom over 100 years ago?
PS Please stick to facts and avoid beliefs
An article of explanation (quite accurate) re: "Ceded" Lands
Making Sense of the Ceded Lands: A Historical Assessment
https://theumiverse.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/making-sense-of-the-ceded-lands-a-historical-assessment/
That being said, TMT should be built, the Hawaiian Kingdom/Nation can claim ownership, as part of the settlement with the USA, among other "Ceded Lands" (Crown Lands). The Hawaiian Kingdom/Nation would be the proud owner of one the greatest telescopes in the world. Stating this with my rose colored glasses on.[
]Mr. Tucker, great questions, and sure hope we get a reasonable answer. Having one foot in each world is beginning to really weigh heavily.
Kane, trying really hard not to take exception with your post regarding our culture, but do understand not being raised with my Kupuna, you cannot be expected to comprehend our "belief". We are a very spiritual people, as many other people are, and my life experiences are very factual. Very factual.
Some of our Kupuna were not Christian at all, but Kahuna. Things you would not believe, even if you saw it with your own eyes (which I have), are "facts". It is just the nature of our culture, Sir. Sorry, rambling in trying to explain the perhaps unexplainable.
I'm going to reread your comment to try and understand what you are saying without taking offense.
Going to make a few spam musubi for the kids, and enjoy the sun.
JMO.
ETA; sentence structure sucks. lol.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 05-16-2015
Just discovered with the 10 meter telescope at Keck, a quadruple quasar.
Considering how rare it is, astronomers might want to take a closer look:
A team of astronomers including J. Xavier Prochaska, professor of astronomy and astrophysics at UC Santa Cruz, has discovered the first known quasar quartet: four quasars, each one a rare object in its own right, in close physical proximity to each other.
The findings, published May 15 in Science, are based on observations using the 10-meter Keck I Telescope at the W. M. Keck Observatory in Hawaii. Either the discovery is a one-in-ten-million coincidence, or cosmologists need to rethink their models of quasar evolution and the formation of the most massive cosmic structures,
http://news.ucsc.edu/2015/05/quasar-quartet.html?utm_medium=rss
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Wao nahele kane - 05-16-2015
Dakine,
I've already addressed that and the same applies to what I wrote previously with regard to beliefs. The US does not recognize the Kingdom Of Hawaii as a current legitimate sovereignty.
It will recognize the Hawaiian Nation/Kingdom no more than it would Greenpeace. The only special recognition by the US is of the descendants of the indigenous peoples of Hawaii prior to 1778 and has left the matter to the State and the US Department of the Interior.