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+--- Thread: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition (/showthread.php?tid=15831)
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 05-18-2015
quote:Mr. Tom, Sir. Deflated balls, as it were. Our current Governor, Mr. Ige, has "deflated balls", Sir. He didn't take control, and push this project forward; he put it onto TMT officials.
Originally posted by TomK
Agree about going to Canada for a war crimes trial, that's ridiculous and does not help the case for those against the TMT, and another example of moving the goal posts.
Pretty curious about how the Pats and NFL has any relevance to the TMT debate though. Can't wait for the explanation.
NO balls. "Deflated" indeed. (Pardon me, please.) Politics at it's best.
JMO.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - TomK - 05-18-2015
Opihikao,
I would be very surprised if that's Gypsy69's point, but thank you, good point made and funny at the same time!
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 05-18-2015
quote:
Originally posted by TomK
An interesting blog post from Andrew Cooper
Thanks for posting Tom.
I find it interesting that Mrs Occupy in Andrew's post would fly all the way to Hawaii and set up camp on Mauna Kea without understanding many details of the situation. It's a long plane flight from the mainland and I would think she could have occupied her time to find out what she was protesting. At the very least, have a conversation with Mr Sovereignty who appears to be her neighbor on the mountain.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - TomK - 05-18-2015
"I find it interesting that Mrs Occupy in Andrew's post would fly all the way to Hawaii and set up camp on Mauna Kea without understanding many details of the situation. It's a long plane flight from the mainland and I would think she could have occupied her time to find out what she was protesting. At the very least, have a conversation with Mr Sovereignty who appears to be her neighbor on the mountain."
You might have thought Mr Crystal would have sorted this out, aligning everyone's chakras or whatever it is he and his box of crystalline minerals do. But as long as his magic box doesn't interfere with observations (they haven't so far) I won't complain.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 05-18-2015
quote:With due respect, pahoated, sematics. "Common ground", "middle ground", whatever.
Originally posted by pahoated
quote:Middle means between two sides. There is no middle because there are no sides.
Originally posted by opihikao
We all have done all we can to find middle ground.
It is common ground. Common ground presentations starting Tuesday, no debate, each speaker presenting their topic.
http://bigislandnow.com/2015/05/15/hhcdc-tmt-mauna-kea-common-ground-events/
The Hawaiians really need to stop dancing around with word games like "practitioner" (you are either a priest or priestess that has met the requirements), culture (religion), caretaker (kahu). Is the issue the telescope or is the issue a sovereign kingdom? Also, this whole island is sacred but there is a place more sacred than Mauna Kea, and almost nobody cares. There has to be a common ground recognition that this island is the most sacred because it has 5 wahine kupua living here with another in the ocean. Both parties have to arrive at this common ground of awareness.
"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"
I am not "dancing", by any means, Sir (although, I can do a mean hula[
]). A "practitioner" does not have to be a "priest" or "priestess", at all. Each of us has the right to offer ho'okupu, and pray to our Kupuna without being ordained (as a "priest/priestess"). The Volcano National Park affords kanaka maoli that right. Why was it left out of the TMT permit/lease? (Rhetoric question). The lease to date, does not provide for those who are "practitioners", in the true sense. It will be worked out, somehow.
For my ohana, none of us will ever traverse the "sacred grounds" of Mauna a Wakea. No. It is kapu.
Now, pardon my ignorance, but where is the place that is "more sacred", please? (Forgive my question; our piko is Puna. If you speak of Lo'ihi, that is still to be realized as "more sacred". E kala mai if your reference is not to Lo'ihi). Or, do you speak of Napo'opo'o (one of three portals)?
The kupua are the demigods who live among us, however, being half human and half "Godlike", have faults (some Kupuna have described them as "tricksters and monsters"). Kupuna supercede "kupua" in my book.
Apologies for the O/T, again, but had to be addressed.
JMO.
ETA; Napo'opo'o possibility.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - TomK - 05-18-2015
"Now, pardon my ignorance, but where is the place that is "more sacred", please? (Forgive my question; our piko is Puna. If you speak of Lo'ihi, that is still to be realized as "more sacred". E kala mai if your reference is not to Lo'ihi). Or, do you speak of Napo'opo'o (one of three portals)?"
Have to admit when I read PT's post about there being somewhere else more sacred than Mauna Kea's summit I thought I'd hold back and see what he meant before posting again and do a little research. Now I know I'm not alone.
PT's not one for posting evidence to support his views, but one can always hope.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Wao nahele kane - 05-18-2015
Opihikao,
The bulk of my points revolve around the hurtles here in the US to resolve the issues (ceded lands/Native Hawaiian Government). Unfortunately it would appear many people think the US (legislature/executive) has carte blanche powers to manifest a Hawaiian Nation Ex nihilo and nothing could be further from reality, not to mention it would be later challenged as an invalid formation by Native Hawaiians at a later date and we'd be right back here again. When it comes to domestic matters, the legislative and executive branches powers are substantially weaker by virtue of State powers and ultimately the rights and power of the people while also scrutinized, considered and either upheld or crushed by the judiciary/SCOTUS.
To elaborate on the aspect of "Ex nihilo" the following should clarify -
Many fail to realize that the US has no Native Hawaiian Government to negotiate with, thus negotiating and creating Ex nihilo. There has been no unified body that stands to represent all the applicable Native Hawaiians. This also tosses a monkey wrench into the issue. For example, the US cannot simply deem one existing group to be the proper representative government of the Native Peoples of Hawaii or we will be right back in this same mess again. Since the overthrow of the Kingdom, there has been no practicing Native Hawaiian government and we're now left with only its people. One of the issues waved about here by the sovereign movement are international laws. In the here and now, the US can only recognize a Native Hawaiian Government that meets todays criteria for a government that is established by its people and therein is the dilemma. That meeting of the Native Hawaiian Minds needs to take place and some sort of agreement established with regard to the methodology of the proposed governments establishment. Without that, the US government has no-one to negotiate with hence the US government cannot create a Native Hawaiian Nation Ex nihilo... it needs the Native Peoples to unify and then the US can assist in its formation and after it's complete, then negotiations can take place.
The process requires that spiritual matters be set aside in the sense of the task at hand and that conscious decisions need to be made in order to meet those 2 simple goals. Goal 1 - form a Native Hawaiian Government that can be recognized domestically and internationally without question or later legal challenge. Spiritual matters won't be applicable to that domestic/international recognition merely that the required steps and agreements be made amongst the Native Hawaiians in order to form that Government will be considered.
Goal 2 - Enter negotiations with the United States.
It's a very simple matter, yet without it nothing with regard to reparations can or will go forward without it.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Wao nahele kane - 05-18-2015
Opihikao,
I'm not sure why the native peoples cannot come together on that matter. Perhaps it has to do with disagreements that are spiritually based or perhaps land based disputes or maybe even for some they don't want any sort of Native Hawaiian Government and are happy with the way things are right now. In any case, until that unification happens, I don't see anyway that the Native Hawaiian Government can exist let alone an agreement made regarding the Ceded Lands.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - PaulW - 05-18-2015
A word from our sponsor:
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RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - TomK - 05-18-2015
I think some of the very recent posts here really ought to be in the sovereignty thread.
http://www.punaweb.org/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21040
This has little to do with the TMT.