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+--- Thread: One man's stab at explaining Hawaiian History. (/showthread.php?tid=16324)
RE: One man's stab at explaining Hawaiian History. - Punatic007 - 08-25-2015
quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
quote:Yes, we all have opinions, however, CIVIL debate and discourse is always better than insulting comments veiled in opinion.
Originally posted by Punatic007
quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
Good article. Well written opinion, and references. Mahalo.
(Ignoring some of the rhetoric, again. Geeze, Punatic007.)
JMO.
It's my opinion Opihikao. You have yours and you have no problem writing about it. This is America and we have free speech, unlike Hawaii before statehood. Learn to respect the rights of others to also express their opinions. Debate with us, don't judge. No one is more special here, ok?
It's not what you say, it is how you say it. That is what I learned, in respecting the rights of others, punatic007.
JMO.
That's what I'm talking about Opihikao, it's not your place to judge how or what I write but you continue to do so, why do you feel so entitled? Please skip over my posts, I am not addressing you. As much as you love the sovereignty stuff, many of us are very sick of the racism and divisiveness and we find it very offensive. I'm venting a bit, not for you to take personally.
RE: One man's stab at explaining Hawaiian History. - Sugarloaf - 08-25-2015
quote:Serious, of course.
Originally posted by Kaimana
quote:
Originally posted by Sugarloaf
Another evidence-less, specious attack on our fine corporations. Got any examples of corporation taking money from ordinary people, and please, refrain from the rube that take exemptions that result in a corporation paying less in taxes, is the same as taking money from the people, any more than me paying you less for a product that you would like to get (in a fair transaction) is taking money from you. You got my money, just less of it.
I would hope that you are aware that America's corporate tax rates are the highest in the developed world, and it is much to the detriment of America. And then, when after-tax profits are divvied-up among the various owners (stockholders), lo-and-behold, it is taxed once again, i.e. double taxation.
I await your bill of particulars.
LMAO!!!! Wait, are you serious or are you trolling?
RE: One man's stab at explaining Hawaiian History. - Kapoho Joe - 08-26-2015
quote:
Originally posted by Sugarloaf
quote:Serious, of course.
Originally posted by Kaimana
quote:
Originally posted by Sugarloaf
Another evidence-less, specious attack on our fine corporations. Got any examples of corporation taking money from ordinary people, and please, refrain from the rube that take exemptions that result in a corporation paying less in taxes, is the same as taking money from the people, any more than me paying you less for a product that you would like to get (in a fair transaction) is taking money from you. You got my money, just less of it.
I would hope that you are aware that America's corporate tax rates are the highest in the developed world, and it is much to the detriment of America. And then, when after-tax profits are divvied-up among the various owners (stockholders), lo-and-behold, it is taxed once again, i.e. double taxation.
I await your bill of particulars.
LMAO!!!! Wait, are you serious or are you trolling?
Found the Trump voter.
RE: One man's stab at explaining Hawaiian History. - seekir - 08-26-2015
originally posted by seekir (me):
quote:
quote:
t seems clear that many people in the islands are feeling hopeless in the face of the challenges they face trying to make a living and support their families. Conflict is probably an inevitable result of this sort of struggle. Gonzales points out that misinformation and hysteria make potential confrontation an even greater threat. Averting this kind of strife should be a focus of community effort in my view.
Response from Mtviewdude
quote:
I guess I am struggling to see how Hawaii would be must better off, if it were an independent Kingdom than a US state. The children have better education, better access to healthcare, food and opportunities then their counterparts. Can someone please explain how the children would be better off?
I'm not among those who believe U.S. citizenship and statehood are bad for Hawaii or Hawaiians. I think Gonzales has the right take on this. As I've stated in other threads I believe that the geography and strategic value of the Hawaiian archipelago virtually dictated that it would be controlled or absorbed by some larger nation. Gonzale's seems to share this view, and also echoes my belief that the U.S. is probably by far the best option among the candidate nations for Hawaii to have affiliated itself with. None of that erases the facts of the history of the overthrow. It was carried out at the point of Marine guns and later declared illegal by President Cleveland. Hawaiians remember this. Nor does affiliation with the U.S. or the troubled status of certain other Pacific nation citizens negate or erase the difficulties faced by working people in the islands trying to make ends meet. The migration of U.S. wealth into the hands of the ultra-rich is well documented, as is control of the Senate, House, and the electoral process by monied lobbyists and corporate actors who are determined to manipulate the process. The "Citizens United" Supreme court decision adds to the deterioration of our representative government. Forty years ago working people were able to own homes and raise families here in the islands. The extraordinarily rapacious actions of those who see realty merely as a commodity and source of wealth have exacerbated the local effects of all these eventualities in a way that I can't help but see as extremely deleterious to the ordinary folks living here.
RE: One man's stab at explaining Hawaiian History. - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 08-26-2015
Found the Trump voter.
You give Sugarloaf more credit than I Kapoho Joe. By the attention span, reading comprehension, and writing ability exhibited so far, I wouldn't think s/he was old enough to vote. Sittin' in Mom's basement click clackin' away with The Super Hot HouseWives of Topeka on the flatscreen... time for another tab of Ritalin...
RE: One man's stab at explaining Hawaiian History. - dan d - 08-27-2015
I have seen first hand that even kids that come out of college with a degree are flippin burgers here. There is not enough jobs here to support them. My talented wife with 30 yrs medical office has to now do interisland work part time .
Kids realize with the poor training they get in schools that they will start off there carrier on EBT living with there families while trying to find good work to stat a family.
Thats why we need to encourage outside light, clean, manufacturing here. I think that was part of the message
aloha
Dan D
HPP
RE: One man's stab at explaining Hawaiian History. - Sugarloaf - 08-27-2015
quote:Coming from YOU, I find that a fine compliment. Now, if a rational person has said what you said, I may take it otherwise, but from you, like from Jimmy Carter, I know it is quite the opposite.
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
Found the Trump voter.
You give Sugarloaf more credit than I Kapoho Joe. By the attention span, reading comprehension, and writing ability exhibited so far, I wouldn't think s/he was old enough to vote. Sittin' in Mom's basement click clackin' away with The Super Hot HouseWives of Topeka on the flatscreen... time for another tab of Ritalin...
Not a single of your infantile, moronic accusations have even come close to being accurate or factual. In fact, they are all, without exception, on the opposite end of the spectrum from being factual. Opposite!!
Now put your pacifier back in, wipe the spittle from your chin and take your nappie.
I don't believe Trump has even been on a ballot on election day, so I don't believe there is such a thing as a Trump Voter. Do I support him? Not exactly. I like that he is shaking things up, putting the Old-Line hacks like Boehner and Mitch M on notice, speaking truth about the Dunce in the White House, etc., but I don't believe he will ever be on the ballot, except in the Primaries, and I don't vote in the Republican or Democrat Primaries -used to, but bailed on the GOP several years ago. Boner pushed me over the edge with his teary outbreaks and willful deceit/broken promises. He is the Dictionary example of "lame".
RE: One man's stab at explaining Hawaiian History. - Sugarloaf - 08-27-2015
quote:Having been associated with Hawaii since 1979, including running a Marine-based business, I have come to the conclusion that anything like the above will never happen. There is nothing to apply pressure in that direction, and virtually everything pushing against.
Originally posted by dan d
I have seen first hand that even kids that come out of college with a degree are flippin burgers here. There is not enough jobs here to support them. My talented wife with 30 yrs medical office has to now do interisland work part time .
Kids realize with the poor training they get in schools that they will start off there carrier on EBT living with there families while trying to find good work to stat a family.
Thats why we need to encourage outside light, clean, manufacturing here. I think that was part of the message
aloha
Dan D
HPP
RE: One man's stab at explaining Hawaiian History. - kalakoa - 08-27-2015
There is nothing to apply pressure in that direction, and virtually everything pushing against.
Arguments about abortion, GMOs, 1FA, 2FA, TMT, and soveriegnty ... do not help.
This means that many local people are "part of the problem".
RE: One man's stab at explaining Hawaiian History. - Sugarloaf - 08-27-2015
The overall business climate is against you. Geography is against you. Local culture, values and norms are against you, when you attempt to start a business in Hawaii. Take, for example, the efforts back when, to expand the boat harbor Honokohau Kona-side, BI. So much push back, the project was dropped, and in a state that is surrounded by water!!!!