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+--- Thread: Forced vaccinations (/showthread.php?tid=16850)
RE: Forced vaccinations - PaulW - 02-02-2016
I'm surprised I have to explain it.
Even if you don't care that the unvaccinated people here may spread measles to the Third World, without the vaccinations we would have the same death rates as the Third World. 2.6 million deaths in 1980, 96000 now, hmm, wonder how that happened.
RE: Forced vaccinations - alaskyn66 - 02-02-2016
I am surprised nobody brought up how much the pharmaceutical companys spend on lobbying congress to push their drugs on the public..(Easily available info if you google it.)
Coming soon.. Vaccination for cooties.
Work..Consume...Obey - There's your meaning of life....
RE: Forced vaccinations - VancouverIslander - 02-03-2016
quote:
Originally posted by lquade
dear mike. please don't be 'shocked'. i never said i was against all vaccines. much of the name calling ( stupid, self absorbed, ninnies, etc) being done as always on punaweb. I am against mandatory vaccines and certain vaccines. I have had several, and gave my children several as they were growing up. But those vaccinations whose side effects are worse than the disease is a different matter. Many many doctors, scientists, other healthcare workers are against mandatory vaccinations. I don't know which medical journals you are referring to when you comment on the HPV vaccine. i would be interested in reading it. If you are fearful of the unvaccinated masses, what then is your stance on our open borders and letting refugees in from third world countries? It is interesting to me how people love to jump on a PC bandwagon. I am concerned that pharmaceutical companies flood our airways with this and that new drug that you need to take. Should the government start deciding meds you must take? suppose they want everyone with a cancer diagnosis to have chemo and radiation treatment. Mandate them? you might be interested in the data on how many doctors make that choice for themselves and their families... many of the medicines we take for granted went through some terrible times that the average person is not aware of. Look at the death numbers when the first birth control pills came out, or the HEP B vaccine that was given thousands of health care workers using Live Virus... OOPS! i could go on and on... i believe we should educate ourselves and make our own decisions about our bodies. You can all start your name calling now...
Dear lquade:
There's no name calling (or straw man arguments) from my side. Skepticalraptor has a nice well referenced article on HPV vaccination: http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/one-stop-shop-science-myth-debunking-gardasil/
Allowing pharmaceutical companies to have any say in these things is a terrible idea, but a well managed science based approach founded on what we have learned over the last century or so is not a bad idea. I currently work with teens and the the amount of disinformation they are exposed to is shocking. They are getting medical advice from celebrities on social media who are indeed empty headed ninnies. I'm not saying that all vaccines should be mandatory, but I think some of them probably should given the public health issues that can arise. In the wikipedia article previously linked regarding causes of death world wide, infectious disease clocked in at over 23%. In the developed world, that's much lower, due in large part to the effectiveness of vaccines, especially DTP.
For those interested in possible side effects of vaccines, the CDC keeps records: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm
In Canada we have a public health care system, so vaccination makes a significant difference to our overall health care costs.
Just call me Mike
RE: Forced vaccinations - kalakoa - 02-03-2016
In Canada we have a public health care system, so vaccination makes a significant difference to our overall health care costs.
In America we have mandatory insurance, so the insurance companies don't really care how much the "overall health care" costs.
RE: Forced vaccinations - knieft - 02-03-2016
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
If anyone is wondering how the anti-vaxxer movement started, it arose from a single article by one doctor (medical license now revoked) in England.
There have been people arguing the other side of vaccination since the technology was developed. The autism stuff is hardly the entire anti-vaxxer movement, though it may be a convenient way to poison the well.
quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
I'm surprised I have to explain it.
Even if you don't care that the unvaccinated people here may spread measles to the Third World, without the vaccinations we would have the same death rates as the Third World. 2.6 million deaths in 1980, 96000 now, hmm, wonder how that happened.
Curious. I should worry about unvaccinated people spreading measles to the Third World, where you claim the majority of measles, certainly measles mortality, already exist?
Where did I claim that measles vaccination is ineffective? Dying from measles, mumps, polio, rubella, typhoid, HIV, or any infectious disease may not exclusively depend on whether one is vaccinated or surrounded by the dreaded unvaccinated.
Who would have thought a flu shot might trigger narcolepsy in people with certain genetic profiles?
http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/topics/influenza/pandemic/h1n1_safety_assessing/narcolepsy_statement/en/
Flu shots are not as well researched as one would think:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20166073
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lainf/article/PIIS1473-3099(11)70295-X/fulltext
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22895945?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17443504
Vaccines introduction (the red lines) are sometimes closely correlated with incidence drop off, sometimes not so much.
http://www.tycho.pitt.edu/resources/images/heatmaps.php#measles
Typhoid and scarlet fever are rarely shown in such graphs--there were no vaccines to speak of for them. CDC uses the decline in typhoid as an example of better sanitation, but offers the graphs of diseases with vaccines (and very similar incidence drop offs to those without vaccines) as proof that vaccines are responsible for the declines.
http://www.cdc.gov/Features/DrinkingWater/graph.html
https://childhealthsafety.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/us-uk-scarlet-1901-1965.gif
Overall, infectious death rates dropped dramatically before vaccination, showing not that vaccinations are bogus but that there must be other factors.
http://b-i.forbesimg.com/danmunro/files/2013/05/infectious-graph2.png
Look at the ingredients in vaccines and tell me with certainty that placing them straight into the bloodstream of infants, or adults, will not have any side effects:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf
I can not find any longterm studies of possible vaccine effects. Yet even if there were such studies it would be tricky to factor for the possible interactions of all the vaccines now recommended.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/133/2/357/F4.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/133/2/357/F5.large.jpg
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/133/2/357
Does being rich make you healthier? Better food and clean drinking water. Improved sanitation, less overcrowded and better living conditions?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo
I am not trying to say that vaccines are some sort of grand conspiracy of Orwellian governments and big pharm. I am simply hoping to instill some doubt into the rigid beliefs of the folks who consider anything less than mandatory vaccination as somehow improper.
Cheers,
Kirt
RE: Forced vaccinations - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 02-03-2016
Look at the ingredients in vaccines and tell me with certainty that placing them straight into the bloodstream of infants, or adults, will not have any side effects:
I read through the list. Looks about the same as if someone bought a Mountain Dew and Beef Jerky at the 7-11.
"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard
RE: Forced vaccinations - knieft - 02-03-2016
You're not injecting beef jerky into the bloodstream. Wink wink, nudge, nudge.
Cheers,
Kirt
RE: Forced vaccinations - PaulW - 02-03-2016
"Curious. I should worry about unvaccinated people spreading measles to the Third World, where you claim the majority of measles, certainly measles mortality, already exist?"
I get it, you don't care if people die of measles, especially poor people. Noted. The majority of measles mortality is in the Third World, it's not a claim I made.
"Where did I claim that measles vaccination is ineffective?"
So you agree that it is effective. Okay, so why are you against it? Contrary to God's Will or something?
Ah, it's the mandatory part you don't like. Right. Well, that's how vaccinations work, herd immunity, you may have read about it.
What happened to the real Kirt?? Did Gypsy hack your account?
RE: Forced vaccinations - PaulW - 02-03-2016
Which of those ingredients scares you the most? Anything to back up your irrational fear?
RE: Forced vaccinations - PaulW - 02-03-2016
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong:
There is nothing "mandatory" or "forced" about these proposals. They require vaccinations for students who wish to participate in the public school system and for workers who wish to work in the health industry.