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+--- Thread: HPP dog attack? (/showthread.php?tid=22387)
RE: HPP dog attack? - AaronM - 07-04-2022
We can pass all the legislation we want but without enforcement it's all meaningless.
RE: HPP dog attack? - Space Karen - 07-06-2022
Do dog whistles and high frequency repellers work.
What's the legality of using pepper spray or a taser to defend against attacks.
RE: HPP dog attack? - terracore - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 12:16 AM)Space Karen Wrote: Do dog whistles and high frequency repellers work.
What's the legality of using pepper spray or a taser to defend against attacks.
The ultrasonic repellers have mixed results. They don't work well on older dogs. They also don't work too many times in a row on the same dog.
The pepper spray works well. They sell one specifically for dogs: https://www.amazon.com/Spray-Maximum-Strength-Protector-Deterrent-All-Natural-Effective/dp/B008SBO9FU?th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=pw016-20&linkId=321e763d85b4e49a66a9b675fc6bf486&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl
It is 1% concentration that is strong enough to repel virtually any dog. The OC spray to use against people usually comes in a higher concentration. So while the dog spray might be more humane, will it work as well against people if you needed it to? I don't know but it doesn't make sense to carry two different kinds. I would just carry the stronger stuff for people.
When I was in Alaska they used to sell a 15% spray for bears. I think eventually they limited it to 5%.
As for the legality of using the spray against a dog in self-defense, if a dog is roaming off it's property you are allowed to take whatever REASONABLE measures necessary to protect yourself from it harming you. In theory the owners could initiate a civil suit against somebody who sprayed their dog, but I can't imagine any jury siding with them.
Edit: I guess it's possible to receive a ticket for pepper spraying a dog under the "injuring/poisoning" ordinance. But the fine is only $10:
Section 4-4-28. Injuring or poisoning dogs.
(a) Unless otherwise provided by law, no person shall wilfully or negligently injure or
poison any dog.
(b) There shall be a penalty of $10 for each violation of this section
RE: HPP dog attack? - AaronM - 07-07-2022
$10 for willfully injuring or poisoning a dog? What a bargain!
RE: HPP dog attack? - terracore - 07-08-2022
If would hardly call pepper spraying an attacking dog "willful". In fact I would fight the $10 ticket on principle.
RE: HPP dog attack? - AaronM - 07-08-2022
In a self defense situation I agree with you TC.
However, what if your neighbor just doesn't like dogs and throws some poisoned meat over your fence? He gets a $10 fine?
RE: HPP dog attack? - terracore - 07-09-2022
(07-08-2022, 10:52 PM)AaronM Wrote: In a self defense situation I agree with you TC.
However, what if your neighbor just doesn't like dogs and throws some poisoned meat over your fence? He gets a $10 fine?
Presumably that would fall under animal cruelty laws which is a different, criminal statute that has higher fines and potential jail time as possibilities.
RE: HPP dog attack? - AaronM - 07-10-2022
Hope springs eternal
RE: HPP dog attack? - terracore - 07-10-2022
I used to be an animal cruelty / neglect investigator. They are very difficult crimes to prosecute. Even with irrefutable evidence the prosecutors don't want to take the cases. As the city attorney explained to me, "the defense is going to produce an expert witness that will tell the jury starving a horse doesn't cause it any discomfort, and I can't put the horse on the stand to testify that it was suffering. And since you saved the horse by impounding it, I don't have a corpse to prove the horse was being starved to death."
It's not enough to prove that cruelty or neglect occurred, one has to prove intent to convince a jury. It's just like with children, in most states it's perfectly legal to beat them for discipline so long as a line isn't crossed. With animals the line is pretty much drawn when the animal dies from the abuse, unless its something especially heinous, like putting them in a microwave or setting them on fire.
If you want to see the absolute worst side of humanity, get a job investigating crimes against animals or children. It's generally the same people committing both.
P.S. I never lost a case. Like the CA said, a plea bargain is the ultimate proof you had an airtight case. I had a few disappointments involving minors, because the laws for misdemeanors generally consider the parents responsible for their children's actions, meaning an authority higher than a city or county has to charge them, and there are few scenarios where a district attorney is going to charge a minor with a felony for animal abuse.
RE: HPP dog attack? - Chas - 07-10-2022
I'm appalled at how animals are treated in Hawaii. All that Aloha, yet there is none for animals. They are treated much better on the mainland!
I never understood that.