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+--- Thread: Fireworks explosion kills three women on Oahu (/showthread.php?tid=23518)
RE: Fireworks explosion kills three women on Oahu - Punatang - 01-05-2025
I once again site anyone? anyone? Ferris Bueller’s Day Off as the ultimate example for comparison between messenger-message-audience:
I'm overwhelmed by the irony of you using "site" instead of "cite".
So would you say he's made a questionable career move? We better keep an eye on old Josh. First massive tax cuts and now showing respect for the unwashed masses. We may have to move another one into the fake democrat column. Maybe he just wanted to get elected.
RE: Fireworks explosion kills three women on Oahu - HiloJulie - 01-05-2025
Sorry Tang, I'm with HOTPE on this one.
While what Green is asking the people of Hawaii to voluntarily do as referenced in the interview that HOTPE posted has good intentions and while he no doubt has a pretty good bead on the big picture, this is what the "audience" of that message wants:
Now this is from last year, 12/31/23 - 1/1/24. The video description:
"Enjoy this amazing aerial video showcasing the “illegal” Hawaii fireworks across the island of Oahu on New Year’s 2024. This video was taken between the Waikele and Waipahu neighborhood. For years the local residents of Oahu have put on amazing firework shows that puts professional firework shows to shame."
(Bolding by me for emphasis)
I'm sure the short term will see marked enforcements, arrests etc., but fireworks - especially "illegal" fireworks will eventually become a political hot potato here in Hawaii in the long term that is not going away anytime soon.
I can already hear BJ Penn screaming about "Green come take fireworks from you!" (with a few "faka's" thrown in of course)
RE: Fireworks explosion kills three women on Oahu - ChunksterK - 01-05-2025
Thank you, Julie, for posting that video.
I love the way the word illegal was put in quotation marks by the producer to indicate, intentionally or otherwise, that while aerials might be against the law, they are only illegal if the law is enforced.
Despite all the blabbering and braying by politicians, I think only a Lahaina scale episode might produce real change, and perhaps not even then. Given the dense wooden construction of many Oahu neighborhoods, a firestorm would seem possible. Google "Dresden 1945" for what that can be.
RE: Fireworks explosion kills three women on Oahu - HiloJulie - 01-05-2025
You are so right ChunksterK!
Think about this - the 6 injured people that had to be flown to Arizona yesterday - how much do you think that cost? They had to fly in over thirty specialists from Texas, each of the 6 patients require a medical team of 6 plus medical professionals - in effect they have to make a "portable" ICU for EACH patient. The ambulances, the buses, the medical teams.
The C-17 jet alone costs 25 grand an hour - just to fly it. Sorry to say, but when you add it all up, the total tab on just this transport alone is over a million bucks.
On top of that - just these 6 alone are looking at a hospital stay of up to 1 year EACH. At 20 grand a day for EACH patient.
If the "community" really cares - the "community" needs to say, "we're done with fireworks."
Especially if and when we find out how many of the injured were directly involved in the illegal fireworks.
RE: Fireworks explosion kills three women on Oahu - Punatang - 01-05-2025
while aerials might be against the law, they are only illegal if the law is enforced
Thank you Chunkster for really helping me frame what I've been trying to convey. In reality, the fireworks are only illegal if the law we want enforced has the consent of the governed.
Thank you Julie for posting that video because it clearly shows that the law did not, at least as of 12/31/2024, have the consent of the governed. The New Years illegal fireworks are a very plural act of civil disobedience that is clearly accepted by a majority of citizens. If that were not the case it would have stopped organically long ago. Everyone is impacted and everyone knows exactly who is doing it.
I want them to stop. Julie, Edge and Chunkster want them to stop. Are we the majority? Josh wants them to stop but he has to have the consent of the governed. He knows that and he seems to know how to charm the masses pretty well. Support him in every way that you can. Let's hope this tragedy resonates with the majority of the governed enough that they are willing to give up something that for whatever reason they have decided is their culture. Understand that your definition of culture might be pretty thin compared to theirs. If you want to save democracy, you have to respect the process and the governed. I'm impressed that Josh seems to be doing just that.
Edge what would you do if you were Gov?
Julie what would you do?
RE: Fireworks explosion kills three women on Oahu - HiloJulie - 01-05-2025
"Julie what would you do?"
Well, first I think how the "message" is received will depend greatly on how many of the dead/injured were just innocent spectators versus the actual "hosts" of this fireworks show, not that it really matters to those killed/injured, but as to who and how what I would do is received.
Now, I must caution, what I am about to say, may make some queasy, but this is "what Julie would do:"
I am a huge proponent of the "scared straight" method of human behavior change.
So, in that light, I would PLASTER - and when I say PLASTER - it would be a non-relenting, nonstop bombardment of no matter where you turn, you would not escape seeing the pictures of brain matter on the sidewalk. The burn victims and their raw injuries. Pictures of the limbs blown off. Pictures of the dead bodies. Videos of the injured screaming in sheer agony. I would bombard the newspapers, social media and television with that message. Continually. 24/7. Additionally, I would sign an executive order allowing billboards to be erected all over the state only to post these graphic images. Especially the graphic pictures of the injured 3-and 5-year-old children.
Now, some may call that "sick" or "depraved" or what have you, but the message being, "you want to play this game, this is your outcome."
Also, when you consider the sheer disaster THAT could have happened - as ChunksterK pointed out - the potential of a "Lahaina scale episode" was there. We COULD have had dozens more killed which fortunately did not happen.
I remember as a child and young teenager, almost everyone smoked cigarettes. One of the most shocking television commercials ever made back then - in the 1970's was an elderly woman who, even with her body being riddled with cancer from smoking, continued to smoke, through the hole that was surgically cut into her throat for her to breathe.
Virtually every person I knew who smoked back then - all quit. After seeing that commercial several times.
So, that's what Julie would do.
RE: Fireworks explosion kills three women on Oahu - Punatang - 01-05-2025
(01-05-2025, 07:40 PM)HiloJulie Wrote: "Julie what would you do?"
Well, first I think how the "message" is received will depend greatly on how many of the dead/injured were just innocent spectators versus the actual "hosts" of this fireworks show, not that it really matters to those killed/injured, but as to who and how what I would do is received.
Now, I must caution, what I am about to say, may make some queasy, but this is "what Julie would do:"
I am a huge proponent of the "scared straight" method of human behavior change.
So, in that light, I would PLASTER - and when I say PLASTER - it would be a non-relenting, nonstop bombardment of no matter where you turn, you would not escape seeing the pictures of brain matter on the sidewalk. The burn victims and their raw injuries. Pictures of the limbs blown off. Pictures of the dead bodies. Videos of the injured screaming in sheer agony. I would bombard the newspapers, social media and television with that message. Continually. 24/7. Additionally, I would sign an executive order allowing billboards to be erected all over the state only to post these graphic images. Especially the graphic pictures of the injured 3-and 5-year-old children.
Now, some may call that "sick" or "depraved" or what have you, but the message being, "you want to play this game, this is your outcome."
Also, when you consider the sheer disaster THAT could have happened - as ChunksterK pointed out - the potential of a "Lahaina scale episode" was there. We COULD have had dozens more killed which fortunately did not happen.
I remember as a child and young teenager, almost everyone smoked cigarettes. One of the most shocking television commercials ever made back then - in the 1970's was an elderly woman who, even with her body being riddled with cancer from smoking, continued to smoke, through the hole that was surgically cut into her throat for her to breathe.
Virtually every person I knew who smoked back then - all quit. After seeing that commercial several times.
So, that's what Julie would do.
I like it, so you would work toward consent of the governed. I remember Josh mentioning the brain matter in his first statement. So which part were you sorry you had to agree with Edge on? I'm confused.
RE: Fireworks explosion kills three women on Oahu - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 01-05-2025
Edge what would you do if you were Gov?
Maybe details later, but at the moment I have some garden soil that needs digging.
For now I’ll just say I would be a one term governor at best. Probably less. Seat belts good. Cigarettes bad. COVID masks good. Roosters bad. I would govern under the assumption that people do not always make decisions that are in their long term or short term best interests.
Complete freedom is for those living at a less than optimal level of their ability. For example, a 70 year old non smoker can probably outrun a 50 year old smoker. The smoker’s freedom costs taxpayers (who pay for the uninsured’s medical care) and health insurance policy holders with higher rates.
Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose. Except for the people who wind up paying for that freedom.
RE: Fireworks explosion kills three women on Oahu - HiloJulie - 01-05-2025
(01-05-2025, 07:56 PM)Punatang Wrote: I like it, so you would work toward consent of the governed. I remember Josh mentioning the brain matter in his first statement. So which part were you sorry you had to agree with Edge on? I'm confused.
Well, and maybe it’s me who has read the room wrong, and if so, my humblest apologies, but the impression I am getting is that you think the “governed” will just roll over and comply with “government” saying “please” about these illegal fireworks.
And while not specifically speaking for HOTPE, the impression I am getting from him, coupled with my own beliefs is that the governed doesn’t give a damn. They will continue this insanity – no matter what. And then you even have an Oahu based real estate agent making professional drone footage commercials set to fancy music about how great “illegal” fireworks shows are – putting “professional firework shows to shame.”
So even if my suggestion of a bombardment of the gore of this issue were to happen, my guess is that some of the “governed” would be laughing at the pictures and video footage while at the same time be on the phone ordering more illegal fireworks for July 4th and next New Years.
But at any event, if I did misread your intentions, as well as HOTPE’s, I offer my humblest apologies to both.
RE: Fireworks explosion kills three women on Oahu - Patricia - 01-06-2025
(01-04-2025, 08:42 AM)TomK Wrote:(01-04-2025, 08:21 AM)Patricia Wrote: What do human sacrifices and fireworks culturally have in common?
One is based on a belief system and the other on an entertainment/economically advantageous system. And not too surprising, the one (based on a belief system) was declared immoral, illegal, and phased out. Easy. Because the belief of human sacrifice did not/does not mesh with western mores and no money (profit) was involved.
You are starting to scare me.
(01-04-2025, 08:42 AM)TomK Wrote:(01-04-2025, 08:21 AM)Patricia Wrote: What do human sacrifices and fireworks culturally have in common?
One is based on a belief system and the other on an entertainment/economically advantageous system. And not too surprising, the one (based on a belief system) was declared immoral, illegal, and phased out. Easy. Because the belief of human sacrifice did not/does not mesh with western mores and no money (profit) was involved.
You are starting to scare me.
Why am I "starting to scare" you?