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+--- Thread: 700 Billion Dollar Bail Out Plan Does Anyone Care? (/showthread.php?tid=2732)
RE: 700 Billion Dollar Bail Out Plan Does Anyone Care? - AlohaSteven - 09-30-2008
Distortions inherent to the current economic system were a long time in the creation --they did not happen overnight-- yet that does not mean they will prove any less lethal than a slowly developing case of terminal cancer.
A remarkably lucid explanation of how we arrived at this dismal juncture and a most useful and practical suggestion of "where to, from here?" is available in the 47 minute animated film "Money as Debt" viewable via this link. The film can be paused for bathroom breaks and panic attacks, then resumed.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279
The specifically "keep it Hawaii" tie-ins come at 31 minutes into the film and (most especially) at 35 minutes in, as anyone familiar with life on an island --especially a Big Island-- will immediately grasp. The suggestion at 35 minutes in is totally viable in Puna.
Enjoy.
PS: My thanks to Congressman Dennis Kucinich for sharing this resource link with me.
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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
Pres. John Adams, Scholar and Statesman
"There's a scientific reason to be concerned and there's a scientific reason to push for action. But there's no scientific reason to despair."
NASA climate analyst Gavin Schmidt
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RE: 700 Billion Dollar Bail Out Plan Does Anyone Care? - gtill - 09-30-2008
Alaska Stephen, great flick, seemed juvenile at first, but was the most informative cartoon I've ever seen. Always heard about this mess, but never before has it been explained so clearly. The Puna relative part was mentioned on a vegi barter thread recently, makes sense.
Some years ago, a barter exchange started in the islands, and it did so well it was busted by our state reg agencies for not paying all taxes and fees relating to what was bartered(mostly income withholding and license requirments etc.)
RE: 700 Billion Dollar Bail Out Plan Does Anyone Care? - ForrU2Cry - 10-01-2008
Alaska Stephen,
Thank You for posting this site, the video was very informative and I looked at a few more and they all relate to why we are in the mess we are in. Geeze it is really not as complicated as it seems! Just get rid of the Rothschild and we would beable to take care of ourselves!
RE: 700 Billion Dollar Bail Out Plan Does Anyone Care? - mella l - 10-01-2008
Thanks for the link Greg. No not all the answers, no one really has all the answers do they???, but the way M Moore thinks makes for some good subjects to dig into.
Malolo[
] Welcome back!I can't talk much about the financial crisis facing our nation, I heard last week the foundation was strong, and now I hear it's not. Someone promised to shut down the Federal Government for a year to pay for the bailout. I thought the government was shut down the last 8 years, and the root of this problem in 1977???
Personally the lack of informatiion for me the common citizen to peruse is no practical information and I have a ridiculous question. Where did the figure of 700 BILLION really comes from? Just asking! How did that number jump out of someones head and get repeated over and over and no explanation. But is must be true???
mella l
"Resolve to be tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant with the weak and wrong....because sometime in your life you will have been all of these."
RE: 700 Billion Dollar Bail Out Plan Does Anyone Care? - LeeE - 10-01-2008
Hi Mella,
It looks like they just made up the 700 billion dollar figure. That's what they appear to be saying.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/24/treasury-large-number/
"Treasury explains how it came up with $700 billion: We just wanted ‘a really large number.’»
Forbes writes on part of the reason that the American public is so skeptical of the Bush administration’s bailout proposal:
In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy.
“It’s not based on any particular data point,” a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. “We just wanted to choose a really large number.”
I've read that the actual bailout will be in the trillions of dollars (derivatives market, ect.).
A local tv news show I saw today claimed in their coverage that the bailout will save Main St. They seemed very adamant about the idea.
I noticed that they featured some politician who was also saying something to that effect, then mentioned that "some people" there don't support the bailout, showed Bernie Saunders for maybe one or two seconds without naming him, then I turned it off.
Now I know why I turned the tv service off all those years ago.
Long term, I'm betting on Main Street. "Every Street USA" deserves a bailout much more than Wall Street, imho.
Aloha,
Lee
RE: 700 Billion Dollar Bail Out Plan Does Anyone Care? - mella l - 10-01-2008
Greg, your link disappeared into something else! LOL LOVE loved the jump, my first sentiment!
Aloha,
mella l
PS. One of my favorite MM suggestions, and one my father explained to his Doctor years ago 1984, "Hey how can you charge this amount for 20 minutes of your time when it takes me a week to earn that amount?
7. NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD BE PAID MORE THAN 40 TIMES THEIR AVERAGE EMPLOYEE, AND NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD RECEIVE ANY KIND OF "PARACHUTE" OTHER THAN THE VERY GENEROUS SALARY HE OR SHE MADE WHILE WORKING FOR THE COMPANY. In 1980, the average American CEO made 45 times what their employees made. By 2003, they were making 254 times what their workers made. After 8 years of Bush, they now make over 400 times what their average employee makes. How this can happen at publicly held companies is beyond reason. In Britain, the average CEO makes 28 times what their average employee makes. In Japan, it's only 17 times! The last I heard, the CEO of Toyota was living the high life in Tokyo. How does he do it on so little money? Seriously, this is an outrage. We have created the mess we're in by letting the people at the top become bloated beyond belief with millions of dollars. This has to stop. Not only should no executive who receives help out of this mess profit from it, but any executive who was in charge of running his company into the ground should be fired before the company receives any help.
Let the bailout company exec's sign a contract to work for say a paltry 400,000 a year until their companies debt is paid. They don't like the terms??? Well get another job, running another company into the pit.
"Resolve to be tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant with the weak and wrong....because sometime in your life you will have been all of these."
RE: 700 Billion Dollar Bail Out Plan Does Anyone Care? - DickWilson - 10-02-2008
Ok, Now we've seen just how this mess is going to impact Main street. Our local businesses are seeing credit lines dry up. We need to pass this recovery bill. I am strongly in favor of going back and hanging those who got us here, from each party. But the country needs the help now.
dick wilson
RE: 700 Billion Dollar Bail Out Plan Does Anyone Care? - LeeE - 10-02-2008
Here's part of what he said.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/news/record.cfm?id=303980
".. Senator Bernie Sanders voted against the bill that would put Wall Street’s burden on the backs of the American middle class. “The bailout package is far better than the absurd proposal originally presented to us by the Bush administration, but is still short of where we should be,†Sanders said. “If a bailout is needed, if taxpayer money must be placed at risk, if we are going to bail out Wall Street, it should be those people who have caused the problem, those people who have benefited from President Bush's tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires, those people who have taken advantage of deregulation who should pick up the tab, not ordinary working people.â€
Sanders proposed a five-year, 10 percent surtax on families with incomes of more than $1 million year and individuals earning over $500,00 to raise $300 billion to help bankroll the bailout. Senators, however, set aside the amendment on a voice vote...."This bill does not effectively address the issue of what the taxpayers of our country will actually own after they invest hundreds of billions of dollars in toxic assets. This bill does not effectively address the issue of oversight because the oversight board members have all been hand picked by the Bush administration. This bill does not effectively deal with the issue of foreclosures and addressing that very serious issue, which is impacting millions of low- and moderate-income Americans in the aggressive, effective way that we should be. This bill does not effectively deal with the issue of executive compensation and golden parachutes. Under this bill, the CEOs and the Wall Street insiders will still, with a little bit of imagination, continue to make out like bandits.
"This bill does not deal at all with how we got into this crisis in the first place and the need to undo the deregulatory fervor which created trillions of dollars in complicated and unregulated financial instruments such as credit default swaps and hedge funds. This bill does not address the issue that has taken us to where we are today..."
RE: 700 Billion Dollar Bail Out Plan Does Anyone Care? - LeeE - 10-02-2008
Ten Reasons Not To Bail Out Wall Street
http://solari.com/blog/?p=1646
Katherine Austin Fitts, former Assistant Secretary of HUD ... member of the board of the Wall Street investment bank Dillon, Read & Co. ...
Katherine is a supporter of local currencies and community banking. Also a prominent whistleblower who exposed massive thefts of taxpayer funds by federal agencies including HUD.
Her articles describing how drug money works in our system are stunning.
Worth a look!
RE: 700 Billion Dollar Bail Out Plan Does Anyone Care? - Jean H - 10-02-2008
What bothers me is the timing!
It's as if the administration wants to make sure they have all this money signed for by the time they leave office.
What we know about this is just the tip of the iceberg, I fear.
Jean Hopper