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+--- Thread: Foundations and Floors (/showthread.php?tid=2843)
RE: Foundations and Floors - Rob Tucker - 01-26-2006
A concrete slab is not kind to the human body in the course of years. You can carpet and pad it all you want. It will, as mentioned, out last a wood framed floor many times over.
My preference is for a light gage steel framed floor and a plywood substitute such as Viroc. I have this in my home and it is strong, termite and fire resistant and tile can be set directly to it. It does cost more to build a raised floor of wood or steel frame.
A raised floor frame also offers the ability to service the building's plumbing and electrical with out needing a jack hammer.
Chairman, Punaweb Committee, MSPA
RE: Foundations and Floors - mella l - 01-26-2006
I think Rob is right about concrete being unkind to the human body. At Christmas I spend 2 days on and off in the kitchen for the feasting of 2 days. This was a concrete slab kitchen state of the art, covered with maple flooring. It really was hard on my body and I'm not in the 6's yet!!! LOL.
Rob what would be the cost difference of wood floor beams and steel beams covered with sub flooring? Just an approximation I you could! Mahalo Mella L
mella l
RE: Foundations and Floors - Rob Tucker - 01-26-2006
I would suggest that the steel floor joists would be less expensive - not to mention straight, dry and termite free.
The plywood alternatives such as Viroc are over twice the price of plywood. Their advantage is that they will not warp or rot or burrn, termites won't touch them and you
may set tile directly without additional layers or prep.
Chairman, Punaweb Committee, MSPA
RE: Foundations and Floors - leilaniguy - 01-26-2006
You have to also remember we're in earthquake country here. My reinforced cartport slab cracked in a quake in April 2000.
RE: Foundations and Floors - HADave - 01-26-2006
There is only one thing wrong with straight, level and plumb.....it lacks character......
Wood Rocks.......Maine only has 17 million acres of forest land no telling how many brazillion acres more there are in Canada and people are concerned about cutting to many trees down funny thing is they can be replanted and you never once have to worry about how many holes you burnt in the ozone doing it.
Think about it, in the beginning there was us and trees and what did we do......We built cement factories when we should of been replanting trees... its not to late... Plant a tree today. And don't show off and build more house than you need. Most of the homes in Florida unaffected by the recent hurricanes were built of wood by Habitat for Humanity International....KISS
Wow must be my time of the month to rant.... over, done with, gone........
RE: Foundations and Floors - mella l - 01-26-2006
hahahaha! Everyone gets the rants sometimes!! LOL!
mella l
RE: Foundations and Floors - Naomi W - 01-26-2006
Rob will the light gage steel frame floor with a plywood substitute such as Viroc.
Hold the weight of the ProTEC panels?
Thanks for the great information!
Naomi
RE: Foundations and Floors - Rob Tucker - 01-26-2006
Sure, a LG steel floor frame will hold up any walls you might want.
Steel framing has a number of good attributes and minimum of bad attributes. Since it is generally less expensive than wood I am surprised people are so resistant to using it.
The main negative of light gage steel is when it is used in a roof frame or exterior wall and is not properly design for heat transfer. Metal will move heat (solar) into a building like a radiator. For that reason I mostly prefer LG steel for interior uses - interior walls and floor frames.
Chairman, Punaweb Committee, MSPA
RE: Foundations and Floors - David M - 01-27-2006
Some great comments and info regarding slab (concrete) vs other floor systems. I'd like to add to the discussion.
I'm definitely not fond of pipes in a slab and agree concrete can be hard on a body. I suspect the older I get any prolonged standing is gonna be wearing, whatever I'm on, so I expect to do a fair amount of sitting in furniture in our new house, except when sleeping in the bed of course. I'm hoping most of my walking/standing will be outdoors - on natural soil/grass (or sitting on my tractor
). Our decision to go slab vs raised floor was not without a lot of thought. One of the reasons our house is extended and on a single level is future planning - we have the possibible need of a wheelchair - so no multiple stories. Also why all doors are 36" plus, no hallways, curbless shower, raised dishwasher, adjusted height electrical, etc.
If building on post and pier or raised foundation, bottom of the floor must be minimum of 24 inches above the ground - that's 4 steps and/or minimum 24 foot ramp (plus landing). If higher, add another foot of ramp length for every inch elevation. I'd probably want 2 separate entrances for safety. I can push a wheelchair easier on concrete than carpet. I doubt if the person sitting in the chair can feel the difference between concrete or wood.
Our choice to try the acid stain/sealer finish has been interesting as well. Cracks are a concern, but then again ever seen a slab crack that was finished in tile, carpet, vinyl, even wood? If a major crack, the finsih floor will be disturbed as well. We are using lots of rebar and mesh. The slabs will also be sawcut for stress. Back when I was doing cost evaluations of post and pier vs slab, finish floor was considered additional cost for both. Now that we are building and we get to provide hurricane relief through higher material costs, whatever finish for our approx 3000 sf of finish floor quickly becomes a big number. One of the advantages of the acid stain finish (besides lower cost if owner-builder) is if at any time in furure we decide to add wood, tile, etc it can be done with minimal prep - virtually no tearout of existing floor. We also have some opportunity for a little artistic play with the acid stain finish.
As for the pipes. MY plumber has done an excellent job. Three main factors that lessen (not eliminate) my concerns:
1. Use of cpvc piping instead of copper. More flexibility, less susecptible to acid water.
2. All piping is wrapped in a foam sleave with joints taped. This provides both a degree of cushioning as well as insulation.
3. All piping is bedded in sand. After trenching, sand was laid in, then the foam sleaved pipe, then covered with more sand. BTW, sand is really expensive here $21/ton vs $14/ton for base course.
Anyway, just wanted to share a bit of what went into our decision process - your mileage may vary.
David
Ninole Resident
RE: Foundations and Floors - Royall - 01-29-2006
I too have thought about copper pipes and acid rain causing the copper to leach out and staining the sinks, tubs, and other fixtures glad to hear about the use of cpvc pipe. I was told that only copper was allowed in this state. It is also easier to work with cpvc. I've never had a leak using it. Is it necessary to wrap the pipe in foam when being buried in the sand or is this just for a little more piece of mind?
Royall