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+--- Thread: A new road through Paradise Park (??) (/showthread.php?tid=789)
RE: A new road through Paradise Park (??) - Kahunascott - 01-25-2007
quote:
Yes Rob that is a beautiful proposal very well done and thank you for all your volunteer work.
But as a resident of HPP that proposal scares the pants off me. The road is larger and faster than what I had in mind.
My main concern about a road through HPP is the "wrong side of the tracks" scenario I think it would divide the subdivision creating a good side and a bad side over the years. Of course the makai side would be the desirable one so everyone mauka could possibly see a decline in property values etc..., for this reason many more folks in HPP could be affected.(the fact that you actually mentioned a rail!!!!!!! so scary and it seems to much like a commuter route than an emergency route)
I am against any road through HPP at this "time", but if I had to choose (and even though I live right in the way of the proposed 15th street bypass and I've been entertaining fantasies of the coh jacking up my house and moving it to a lovely lot in the tsunami zone.The house my family and I built with our own hands, the house my last baby was born in,The house that as long as I'm alive is not going to see a road in its backyard.(sorry for the rant but I have familial issues with eminent domain)).
I would choose Gov't Beach road basically pave or grade the red road all the way from kalapana to hilo why?
a.It would open up an area of otherworldly beauty (and beaches) for all to enjoy.
b.It provides alternate access for "all" of lower puna
c.It could be in the historical corridor so no threat of making it a commuter route it would be protected.
d.The folks on the Makai side of beach already think they are in their own subdivision so no change there.
e.Being that most of the red road is already paved and enjoyed by many its probably the most logical and economical.
The idea was tossed out because its in a tsunami zone but so are many other roads in Hawaii and supposedly we are to be warned in advance making the road still usable for evacuation.
The focus seems to be on HPP and Hawaiian Beaches but in the next 50 years I can see kalapana,seaview,Lelani and all parts of kapoho areas growing and developing, it doesn't seem like the plan addressed these areas if they could not use the existing highways.
I'm thinking if they put in a center turning lane and shoulders on the main roads of HPP, kaloli,paradise and makuu that should handle the traffic woes in the park.As well as increasing hwy 130 to allow better access in and out of the park.How folks think a bigger highway is more dangerous I don't know, its the cars that don't have lanes to pull into now that are the problem.
I had also heard that the village center idea was shot down because a certain amount of people have to live within a 1/2 mile of the center and that is not possible in HPP unless we subdivide the surrounding lots and build multi units like condos and apartments.
Has anyone else heard about that?
Anyway, I guess I have to get started on the "NO RAILS IN MY PARK COMMITTEE" now.
I’m perplexed with your judgement that a road through HPP would disjoin the community like the North and South. (Or, in our case Mauka and Makai) Currently Hwy 130 intersects HPP and I don’t know of a civil war that has transpired between these two sectors.
If it’s concluded that a second roadway is required for the plan it’s going to cut through somewhere in HPP, and it will require some to contribute all or part of their land under the Right of Eminent Domain.
Remember that it’s for the good of many.
Furthermore, I don’t think you will ever see a paved road between Kapoho and Kahakai Blvd. There are Ancient Hawaiian Burial Grounds along that route and to excavate and widen the existing road would be sacrilegious for many, if not all Hawaiians.
Finally, (I think) the whole beach road area is in a tsunami zone and because of this factor it would eliminate State and Federal funding.
RE: A new road through Paradise Park (??) - Carey - 01-25-2007
One of the problems with most of the plans is that they do go through private lands. Shipman has not shown any support for roads going through their lands, and there are no easements, including Railroad or Beach, that exist today. The beaches along the old beach trail are fronted by private landowners (Shipman is the largest, but there are other small acerage blocks within that land area that have private owners). Access to the otherworldly beaches would entail placing raods that divided a few peoples 2-4 acres lots. This would also drastically effect CZM (coastal zone management) policies in the area. Both of these are not something the county has been overly willing to do.
I agree that there should be alternate routes, but I also know that if it were my land, I would not want it to be used for open access roads....
Beach road also has been undermined by wave erosion in HPP and would have to be rerouted....effecting many homes in that area....
These are some of the problems with planning this out 50 years after subdivision. Hopefully new planning will be better....
Aloha, Carey
RE: A new road through Paradise Park (??) - Rob Tucker - 01-26-2007
Actually, Shipman has indicated that they would likely support a route through their property if it is in the best public interest.
That does not mean they support my proposal per se but that they do recognize public need and are willing to respond to that.
RE: A new road through Paradise Park (??) - Kelena - 01-26-2007
As a prospective resident of HPP, I would not like to see increased traffic too close to the coast. I think that would detract from what some of the beauty that we come to Puna to enjoy. In addition, a road bisecting Kaloli Point from the rest of HPP would intefere with a sort of benign gentrification of HPP that is working its way back from the Point.
I think a Beach road highway or thoroughfare would be cutting off HPP's nose to spite its face. No one will wish to vacation rent in such an area. And the benign gentrification of at least ONE area of Puna will stop dead in its tracks. I do not know enough about the area to propose an alternative, but such a road would literally be in my backyard. If however, the road noise attenuates the frog noise, I'm all for it!
All kidding aside, perhaps some sort of commute time contraflow on 130 would help a little. That's what they do on Kauai, which has traffic problems that are equal or greater than Puna's, although without the murderous speed and dangerous highway entrances.
I also think that providing more services, closer would help. HPP is so huge, it is somewhat disturbing that it lacks a sort of town center. It needs that. Pahoa also needs more services, which I think it will get. I think there is plenty of room in Pahoa for some actual services, in the cute part of town, without disturbing the town's character. They must be more careful in the future there. The strip mall shopping center detracts from the character, as useful as it is. When I first came to town, I thought that WAS the town, until I asked. The very odd highway entrance seems it was designed to kill.
Off topic, but I think they should also change the name of HPP to something in the Hawaiian Language.
RE: A new road through Paradise Park (??) - JerryCarr - 01-26-2007
Aloha, Glen,
Gentrification is seldom completely benign. One of the things I LIKE about living in HPP is the amazing diversity of both the residents and the housing stock. We have everything from million-dollar ocean front palaces to unpermitted off-grid experimental units. (And yes, some tents and shacks, too.) While it is attractive to some to see gentrification bump up their property values, there are others who lose by being priced out of the housing market. Homelessness on Oahu has been accellerated by the gentrification of formerly low-rent areas on the Leeward Coast. It could happen here, too.
Having said all that, I am a realist, and I know that free markets are the best way to go. What will happen will happen, but we do have the power to influence some aspects of how it unfolds.
As far as a highway through the beach end of HPP is concerned, I don't think you have to worry. As others have said on this forum, federal funds are not available for major new roads in tsunami inundation zones.
Cheers,
Jerry
RE: A new road through Paradise Park (??) - Punamom - 01-26-2007
Hi Rob,
Could you please tell,what you personally and your working group think should be done about highway 130?
RE: A new road through Paradise Park (??) - Rob Tucker - 01-26-2007
Okay, I'll try. The question is:
Could you please tell,what you personally and your working group think should be done about highway 130?
Answer:
First off my working group is the Land Use WG, not the Transportatiton WG. Land Use WG's point of view (soon to be submitted to the Steering Commttee) is that Hwy 130 should remain an agricultural/residential corridor with zero commercial uses.
This is to :
a) preserve the rural atmosphere of Puna. (prevent sprawl)
b) enhance and support the creation and development of localized village centers both existing (Pahoa & Keaau) and future (HPP, Ainaloa,++).
As to improvements to Hwy 130:
1. Traffic Safety topics are being addressed by the Transportation WG.
2. The state DOT is already in process to munch up $60 million and tie up traffic for two or more years in adding traffic lights and lanes toward Pahoa. Probably a done deal. Some will applaud (those who like driving 60+ mph) and some will grumble (those who prefer a more laid back Hawaiian style life).
3. More cars moving faster is, to my view and, I believe the majority of our WG, a method of development that did not work well in Honolulu ($4.5 billion proposed for mass transit) and will not work well here.
4. I would personally prefer safety improvements such as:
a. traffic police at major intersections during rush hours now (1st put forth by Gary Safarik) to control turns.
b. Improved egress lanes for entering and exiting Hwy 130 at all major subdivisions.
c. Lower speed limits (enforced)
d. Experimental traffic lights at key intersections (1st put forth by Brian Jordan).
e. Full review and consideration of all CDP recommendations before full blown committment to a Hwy 130 4+ lane dedication.
Just my P.O.V. [I may be wrong about who proposed what first - if so please forgive me]
RE: A new road through Paradise Park (??) - Carey - 01-26-2007
An interesting thing happened in light of this forum discussion. I was riding the big yellow HeleOn bus this morning, and a couple was talking to the normal route driver about how to change the HeleOn bus service to further assist the residents of Puna. Our driver has an interesting perspective & idea on how to do this. Use the larger capacity buses to run fairly constant round the island routes (with buses going both clock wise & counterclockwise around). The smaller buses would run as feeder buses to central stations along the circular routes. One of the this he noted is that the lower Puna route is the only one on island that runs from morning till night (6am until 10pm), and has the most round trips. So we are lucky to be in Puna, where the tax money is benefitting those that use the transit system. One thing to remember is that a transit bus full of passengers is the same as about 40 or more cars. The more buses on the road also equals alot fewer cars.
Rob, at the Shipman developement meeting this summer, There was a question on whether there was to be open access to Railroad, that seemed to be turned down by the presenters, plus their developement plan for the land had NO access route bisecting their property from HPP to Hilo (this would kinda ruin some of their developement plans). Do you know if this has been discussed with them since this summer?
Aloha, Carey
RE: A new road through Paradise Park (??) - Rob Tucker - 01-26-2007
Shipman has been participating in the CDP process in, at least, the Land Use WG. We have seen the Shipman plans for Keaau and have been able to gain their point of view on any subjects.
RE: A new road through Paradise Park (??) - wax - 01-31-2007
The Shipman long range plan actually has an excellent response to traffic out of lower Puna. Rather than simply providing one access point, theirs provides four accesses from HPP - thus reducing traffic per access point. It then runs towards, but short of, 130 and in to Hilo.